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2 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2011 - 12:47PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2010
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I feel the same. Thank you for your answer
I think part of the reason this comes up so often is that we all have different notions of what DnD should be. But ultimately I'm glad there are choices and it really does help all gamers. Xbox vs. Playstation creates an atmosphere where companies have to strive to keep making their product better and ultimately we win.
Old school DnD fans have to face that market realities are going to alter the game. There will always be niche players who are still playing 1st edition. 3e was close to my notebook full of houserules for AD&D, but 4e is totally different. It's still DnD because it says so on the box, but for me the similiarties pretty much stop there. 4e is a really fun tactical board/card game. I love it! It's cool that you can stop fighting do some role playing occasionally. I understand its not for everyone, but its the direction is going and that is nearly unstoppable.
I think if more people could admit that 3.5 and 4e are just completely different games, and people are allowed to prefer one or the other, OR BOTH, things on the forums would be a lot more civilized.
RULE 0 FALLACY
You can also work around some of these problems by invoking the Rule 0 Fallacy ("this rule isn't broken because I can fix it"). In this case, when the system is inappropriately reporting failure or success, the DM should simply ignore it.
But if the mechanics are so broken that we need to frequently ignore them, why are we using them at all?
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2 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2011 - 12:55PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2005
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There are far worse places that D&D can get turned over too (if that was to happen). I just don't know if I could go back to a system like PF.
There are many things I DO like about 4e, more than I don't like. I would hate to see some of those elements go away.
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
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2 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2011 - 12:56PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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That's our only hope though.
Help us Obi-Wan Kenobi; you're our only hope!
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2 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2011 - 1:15PM
#14
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Only if you knew the power of the DArkside!!!!
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
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2 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2011 - 1:28PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2007
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The problem isn't WotC, the problem is Hasbro.
Hasbro will not sell D&D, even if it fails utterly. They will shelve it until "demand recovers" and use the brand-name for board games and CCGs.
So, in other words, if D&D fails now, it is dead forever as we know know it... and I think it already has.
I don't know about being dead currently, but the rest of this is spot-on for what I'm thinking D&D as a brand will turn into. Eventually, I think Hasbro will decide that the niche RPG market just doesn't hold up to what they were wanting, and the D&D brand name will be used for more primary markets - board games, video games, apparel, and so forth. It would't be the first time the actual original product was used as a brand for deritave products over the original product.
Not saying that it will definitely play out that way, but the possibility is certainly there.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2011 - 2:19PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Apr 22, 2001
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Hey everybody,
as it is clearly to see on those boards here, people are frustrated.
There are no releases, the concept failed with essentials. The "core-world" of Points of light was poorly executed and other aspects of 4e didnt work.
Paizo did really well with Pathfinder and focusing on the Core World Golarion.
There are already threats asking what to do with the D&D License.
We just started with 4e and are not long time fans, the Red Box was our first game and we liked it.
Paizo is now working on something like the Red Box. Just looking at the website and boards there is a huge difference in quality.
Do you think it would be the best solution for Paizo to take the D&D license and give the players back what they deserve? Attention, Playtests and quality releases as pdf and books instead of buggy 10$ a month silverlight(?) character creators.
While I and pretty much every group I know are huge Pathfinder fans running it almost exclusively to be honest with we really don't see Pathfinder as an updated version of D&D anymore. Its just an alternative fantasy game that has a lot of similarities... In essence their is still a need in the group to feel the D&Dness and its why 4th edition while getting limited play gets periodically requested by our joined club. It has however been thanks to essentials that the group has any interest in it at all anymore.
class books asside the three box sets (rules compendium, DM Kit and Monster Vault) are without question the absolute highest quality product for 4th edition today with the greatest value you can get. There is no better deal in D&D today.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2011 - 2:35PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Feb 11, 2006
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Pulls pin out of a grenade
*Yawn*
I don't care who owns the brand name, or even if the brand name gets replaced by another. There will always be D&D, or a game like it.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2011 - 2:48PM
#18
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2010
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As someone who loves the Pathfinder setting and the quality level maintained in the consistent release schedule products I have to give a huge resounding NO.
First, it would distract from the products that Paizo is already putting out that are top notch. Even if you don't like the system the writing quality of a lot of published adventures and setting materials are worth getting for porting to a system you do like.
Second, it would be over a year before we would really see anything produced. Paizo's public playtesting pattern is one of at least half a year in the public before bringing it back in to do all the shining and additions and whatnot. It's not worth the wait when the brand is still fine.
Third, why take it from the hands of those who have the most intimate experience with it? There's business practices that WotC employs (some of them might be the result of pressures from Hasbro, but there's no was we can know) that aren't good for them or their customers, but those are business practices. The game is still really dang fun.
Fourth, Hasbro and WotC never sell anything to anybody. It just doesn't happen. There are huge chunks of fans in the designer board game market that would gladly buy up tons of products that Hasbro and WotC are just sitting on, but they don't get produced because they don't make enough money to fit their business expectations. Notice that it's not "they wouldn't make money" it's that they wouldn't make enough money. And they still won't sell the licenses.
Fifth, I'm not sure Paizo could handle the demand levels required for something like D&D. They do great with their stuff, but that's because their business practices (subscriber service for printed products or pdfs and just having the pdfs available in general) allow them to much better protect themselves from overprinting any one product. D&D is in practically every bookstore, board game store, and even some of the big box stores - they can't help but print a massive amount more than they might need just because all those stores want to put up the books on the shelves.
Pretty much I just think Paizo's better off doing their own stuff and that D&D is in the right creative hands, just maybe not the best business hands.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2011 - 3:22PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
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What on earth would make anyone think that Pazio would do anything constructive with the D&D license? They are a company that designs role playing games that really sucks at designing role playing games.
Exhbit A: Pathfinder RPG, a rule system that makes a large quantity of changes to 3E while somehow managing to fix almost none of the core flaws of 3E (the fixing of said flaws being the stated reason that Pazio gave for why they created PF in the first place) and actually make some of the flaws more pronounced.
So again you want to turn D&D over to Pazio why?
Not liking the new forums.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2011 - 3:26PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2009
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I don't know about being dead currently, but the rest of this is spot-on for what I'm thinking D&D as a brand will turn into. Eventually, I think Hasbro will decide that the niche RPG market just doesn't hold up to what they were wanting, and the D&D brand name will be used for more primary markets - board games, video games, apparel, and so forth. It would't be the first time the actual original product was used as a brand for deritave products over the original product.
Not saying that it will definitely play out that way, but the possibility is certainly there.
I have to agree - I've begun to feel that at this point D&D is more valuable to Hasbro as a brand they can push into other markets (e.g. board games) and license (e.g. movies, video games) than as an RPG line they release themselves.
“If the computer or the game designer is having more fun than the player, you have made a terrible mistake.” -Sid Meier
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