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2 years ago ::
Apr 24, 2011 - 9:12PM
#721
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With striker hp and defenses, being in melee wouldn't actually be a big deal. The summons could also use an improvement, in the form of decent OA or IA attacks, and either auras of their own, or having the Aura of Binding(yes I named the hypothetical class feature :P) add itself automatically to the aura of the summons.
Having said that, it would be better to have an aura 3 or 4.
Or, it could get a weaker summon at level one, and have the Aura of Binding duplicate itself centered on the summon, so you have two auras, plus the powers. And then your later level summons would have the aura they already have, and the effects of the aura of binding are added onto that aura.
The aura would have a debilitating effect, and also allow the use of an at-will attack in specifica circumstances, that would do small damage when triggered, and put a save ends effect on the target. Slowed, immobilized, dazed, allies of the target take X damage when they begin their turns or end their turns adjacent to the target, etc.
Playtesting and tweaking would be required, of course, but it's at least the basis for something that can honestly be called a controller. It's main controll aspect would be shorter range than normal (or, in the case of the summon auras, somewhat movement restricted), but it would provide enough of a foundation that the ranged encounter and daily powers available would compliment the class with ranged control options.
But, oh well. I'll just play two hexblades, instead of a hexblade and a binder, and make one a gloom pact with control powers.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2011 - 12:49AM
#722
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With striker hp and defenses, being in melee wouldn't actually be a big deal.
Leather armour and Dex/Int as a secondary (not primary) stat... and you think a binder will do OK standing right next to the monsters? 
No, even a 3-4 aura would put the binder far too close to the front line. A binder needs to keep moving to keep his Shadow Walk up, which means he needs to keep out of OA range of the monsters. It's certainly possible to build a binder who is tough enough (or elusive enough, or invisible often enough) to get closer than that, but it's not something that should be being encouraged as a default tactic for all binders (the pact boon trigger is bad enough in this regard).
I actually think the binder is fine when viewed in isolation. It's not up to wizard standards as a controller, but it's also nowhere near as bad as the seeker. The problem is that it seems like the pre-Essentials warlock can be just as good a controller as the binder is without having to give up its ability to also be a reasonably competent striker.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2011 - 12:38PM
#723
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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heh to me focuses sounds like you are s-stuttering.
I can't stand foci. Or at least, Ki Foci. It makes me think of people trying to be smarmy.
Heh, I used to think spelling height with an e was stupid looking too.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2011 - 8:05PM
#724
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With striker hp and defenses, being in melee wouldn't actually be a big deal.
Leather armour and Dex/Int as a secondary (not primary) stat... and you think a binder will do OK standing right next to the monsters?
No, even a 3-4 aura would put the binder far too close to the front line. A binder needs to keep moving to keep his Shadow Walk up, which means he needs to keep out of OA range of the monsters. It's certainly possible to build a binder who is tough enough (or elusive enough, or invisible often enough) to get closer than that, but it's not something that should be being encouraged as a default tactic for all binders (the pact boon trigger is bad enough in this regard).
I actually think the binder is fine when viewed in isolation. It's not up to wizard standards as a controller, but it's also nowhere near as bad as the seeker. The problem is that it seems like the pre-Essentials warlock can be just as good a controller as the binder is without having to give up its ability to also be a reasonably competent striker.
I've never had trouble keeping a hexblade alive. Nor a melee cunning bard that I played from level 4 to level 20 or so. He made death saving throws once, in all that time, and was the party's only leader.
It's not without risk, but it's not that bad. And again, with summon auras as well, the binder could blanket a good amount of a given fight, right from level one. Probably make the aura deal in movement control primarily, making it easier for the binder to position himself than it would be for the enemy to do so in turn.
Possibly even give the binder a bonus to ac against OAs. It would hardly OP the class, since it would just be a risk mitigation feature.
Nearly any proposal made on the topic can be torn apart, and I like the idea of going through that process over and over again. New thread, perhaps?
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2011 - 8:06PM
#725
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heh to me focuses sounds like you are s-stuttering.
I can't stand foci. Or at least, Ki Foci. It makes me think of people trying to be smarmy.
Heh, I used to think spelling height with an e was stupid looking too.
At least height is the one correct spelling of the word. If there was another option that didn't look weird, continueing to use it might legitimately be silly.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 26, 2011 - 1:09AM
#726
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I've never had trouble keeping a hexblade alive. Nor a melee cunning bard that I played from level 4 to level 20 or so.
Bards and hexblades are proficient in hide and chainmail armour. The binder is stuck with just leather, unless you want to take points away from the ability scores you actually need to put them into Str and Con, then spend a feat to get hide armour proficiency.
Like I said, you can certainly do that and make it work, but it should not be the default. IMO, it is bad design to give a class a feature that encourages a particular tactic as a default when that tactic requires spending additional resources to not be suicidal. Doing so introduces a trap for unwary or inexperienced players.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 26, 2011 - 2:16AM
#727
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2007
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Binders actually aren't as bad as you think. The pact boon utility powers state that they are triggered when you reduce a creature to 0 hit points or an enemy adjacent to you drops to 0 hit points. I think that most of you are under the impression that you must drop your enemy while you are adjacent, but that's not what it says.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 26, 2011 - 3:46AM
#728
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The binders survivalability would be difficult with only leather armor. getting into melee with one would not be my first choice.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 26, 2011 - 3:51AM
#729
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The binders survivalability would be difficult with only leather armor. getting into melee with one would not be my first choice.
just keep in mind though you move three squares and have an effective +2 to all defenses. and once a fight you can minor action turn invisible and just stroll on in. and anytime you drop something, minion or otherwise, you are invisible again. if you play it with any sort of strategy you can wade through melee to set up your attacks with no fear of being hit and at the very least have an effective +2 to defenses from shadow step. they have tons of powers that cause effective invisibility. defenses are basically their strong point
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2 years ago ::
Apr 26, 2011 - 5:48AM
#730
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2004
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Moving three squares isn't the best idea when you're in melee range of enemies to try and provoke your boon.
Also, yes, the binder is in fact worse then the seeker as a controller, worse then the hunter too, and much harder to fix, given that they don't get to pick most of their powers (so you can't just offer new encounter or at-will powers), and they don't do class or build feats anymore.
The binder is not ok in isolation, the control it provides is mostly very soft, easily avoidable, frequently more disruptive to the party then the enemies (all those area bursts that block line of sight, and that the enemy can just walk out of without penalty on their turn), and often has such weak punishments for the enemy ignoring them that it doesn't matter either way. I would rather roll with any other class then a binder. Even a vampire. Even an Ossassin.
It's not just the warlock, but also the Hexblade that can be a better controller then the binder, particularly Gloomblades.
Necromancy: Friendship is MagicSpoiler:
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