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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2011 - 10:11AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Dec 31, 2003
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Going off of the Design & Development article: Stephen: Although the initial design required training in Arcana for the utility powers, which followed the model of many knight utility powers that have training in a class skill as a prerequisite, the requirement is too burdensome for typical knight characters. Arcana isn't a class skill, so the requirement adds a feat prerequisite to tak eany of these powers. Thus, we removed the "trained in Arcana" requirement and replaced it with "must be eladrin." The flavor and mechanics of these powers still provide a sense that these powers come from the arcane side of the eladrin.
This seems strange, since Eladrin already have the "Eladrin Education" racial feature, which allows them to select any one skill to be trained in, even if it's not a class skill (such as Arcana). Arcana is a skill which they can have use for with a high intelligence that complements some of the features. Leaving the requirements as "trained in Arcana" opens the class to all Eladrin plus any other character with a feat or background benefit (who can explain how they trained to mix magic and swordsmanship by studying under eladrin masters or perhaps learning on their own). Leaving it open only to the eladrin race is actually more restrictive, since it's just eladrin and undead eladrin (plus certain half-elves if your DM is generous). If you don't want the eladrin to feel forced to spend their education benefit on Arcana, than the "trained in Arcana or eladrin" compromise already put forth looks appropriate enough.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2011 - 10:28AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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I love the concept, but the mechanics are not very good. Something needs to be given to this build to make up for the damage penalty of melee training.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2011 - 10:30AM
#23
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Intelligent Blademaster solves that problem nicely.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2011 - 11:53AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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Intelligent Blademaster solves that problem nicely.
If you want to play this in any official capacity, you need an Essentials+ solution.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2011 - 12:11PM
#25
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They need to roll everything that says "Requires Eladrin" back to "requires training in Arcana." Both because I LOVE that Essentials martial utilities do that skill requirement thing (which is to say I think it is an excellent stylistic mechanic, not that I demand this article cater to my personal tastes), and because it keeps the build Eladrin-themed, and not Eladrin-limited, which the fluff implies it is supposed to be.
Nothing wrong with a racially-themed build that is easier for its race to get into, but requires other races give up a little something to take -full- advantage of. In fact, I would argue that's kinda the point.
And, seriously, if the PP's gonna require Int to work well, that need for Str in Heroic teir needs to be addressed.
I've been playing a Sentinal druid, and I like how it felt like Essentials Shaman-lite. This really could be Essentials Swordmage-lite. Run with it.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2011 - 1:14PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Apr 11, 2008
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Going off of the Design & Development article:
Stephen: Although the initial design required training in Arcana for the utility powers, which followed the model of many knight utility powers that have training in a class skill as a prerequisite, the requirement is too burdensome for typical knight characters. Arcana isn't a class skill, so the requirement adds a feat prerequisite to tak eany of these powers. Thus, we removed the "trained in Arcana" requirement and replaced it with "must be eladrin." The flavor and mechanics of these powers still provide a sense that these powers come from the arcane side of the eladrin.
This seems strange, since Eladrin already have the "Eladrin Education" racial feature, which allows them to select any one skill to be trained in, even if it's not a class skill (such as Arcana). Arcana is a skill which they can have use for with a high intelligence that complements some of the features. Leaving the requirements as "trained in Arcana" opens the class to all Eladrin plus any other character with a feat or background benefit (who can explain how they trained to mix magic and swordsmanship by studying under eladrin masters or perhaps learning on their own). Leaving it open only to the eladrin race is actually more restrictive, since it's just eladrin and undead eladrin (plus certain half-elves if your DM is generous). If you don't want the eladrin to feel forced to spend their education benefit on Arcana, than the "trained in Arcana or eladrin" compromise already put forth looks appropriate enough.
This is an excellent point, and is one with which I wholly concur. Making the new half-build more accessible to other races would be more useful for other races with higher Intelligence.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2011 - 2:12PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2007
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Going off of the Design & Development article:
Stephen: Although the initial design required training in Arcana for the utility powers, which followed the model of many knight utility powers that have training in a class skill as a prerequisite, the requirement is too burdensome for typical knight characters. Arcana isn't a class skill, so the requirement adds a feat prerequisite to tak eany of these powers. Thus, we removed the "trained in Arcana" requirement and replaced it with "must be eladrin." The flavor and mechanics of these powers still provide a sense that these powers come from the arcane side of the eladrin.
This seems strange, since Eladrin already have the "Eladrin Education" racial feature, which allows them to select any one skill to be trained in, even if it's not a class skill (such as Arcana). Arcana is a skill which they can have use for with a high intelligence that complements some of the features. Leaving the requirements as "trained in Arcana" opens the class to all Eladrin plus any other character with a feat or background benefit (who can explain how they trained to mix magic and swordsmanship by studying under eladrin masters or perhaps learning on their own). Leaving it open only to the eladrin race is actually more restrictive, since it's just eladrin and undead eladrin (plus certain half-elves if your DM is generous). If you don't want the eladrin to feel forced to spend their education benefit on Arcana, than the "trained in Arcana or eladrin" compromise already put forth looks appropriate enough.
This is an excellent point, and is one with which I wholly concur. Making the new half-build more accessible to other races would be more useful for other races with higher Intelligence.
Such as a certain other Dexterity/Intelligence race with a racial teleport power. I'm sure you all know which one I'm talking about.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2011 - 3:03PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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Going off of the Design & Development article:
Stephen: Although the initial design required training in Arcana for the utility powers, which followed the model of many knight utility powers that have training in a class skill as a prerequisite, the requirement is too burdensome for typical knight characters. Arcana isn't a class skill, so the requirement adds a feat prerequisite to tak eany of these powers. Thus, we removed the "trained in Arcana" requirement and replaced it with "must be eladrin." The flavor and mechanics of these powers still provide a sense that these powers come from the arcane side of the eladrin.
This seems strange, since Eladrin already have the "Eladrin Education" racial feature, which allows them to select any one skill to be trained in, even if it's not a class skill (such as Arcana). Arcana is a skill which they can have use for with a high intelligence that complements some of the features. Leaving the requirements as "trained in Arcana" opens the class to all Eladrin plus any other character with a feat or background benefit (who can explain how they trained to mix magic and swordsmanship by studying under eladrin masters or perhaps learning on their own). Leaving it open only to the eladrin race is actually more restrictive, since it's just eladrin and undead eladrin (plus certain half-elves if your DM is generous). If you don't want the eladrin to feel forced to spend their education benefit on Arcana, than the "trained in Arcana or eladrin" compromise already put forth looks appropriate enough.
I love the crazy logic here:
"We thought that the powers would be difficult to access for most Knights because most of them aren't trained in Arcana.
So instead, we rendered them COMPLETELY inaccessible to ALL Knights who aren't part of a race which is fairly sub-optimal for the average build.
Thus, we took something reasonably accessible to most Knights via Multiclass feats, backgrounds or simple Skill Training (Arcana), and rendered it TOTALLY INACCESSIBLE TO THEM."
*/me applies palm vigorously to face*
Getting a skill trained that isn't on the class skills list is a trivially difficult thing to do. Backgrounds can allow it. Multiclassing can allow it. Simply spending a frelling feat for Skill Training can allow it. Nothing can CHANGE AN EXISTING CHARACTER'S RACE.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2011 - 3:05PM
#29
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Well, there is the Reincarnate Champion ED. That can do it.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2011 - 3:10PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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I'll never say I'm unwilling to take correction. One thing can do it. Several things can change a character's origin or race, I know, various Heritage/Bloodline feats and whatnot, but AFAIK before Epic only being a Revenant can make you able to become an Eladrin if you're not one already, RAW.
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