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Switch to Forum Live View Power Cantrippery - Light, Ghost Sound, and Mage Hand
2 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2011 - 9:08AM #1
Stealthscout2
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 34
So, you think as a trained wizard you are smart.  This is a logical statement, but as with all hypotheses this must be proven before your colleages accept it.  How do you plan on doing this, apprentice?




Cantrips are, and have always been, an area in the D&D system which lets creativity rule. This makes them almost unique in the 4th edition, which is focused on making statistical balance and limits ‘fluffy’ powers as they are not as easily controlled. This is a good thing, but Cantrips are a  wonderfull controller option before a situation requires you to bring out the Guns (encounter or  damaging at-wills), let alone the Big Guns (dailies or precious nova combos).
One of the only major problems people have with cantrips is that we forget about them or think they cannot have any significant effect at higher levels. Veterans will tell you this is patently wrong and this thread/guide is intended to highlight this fact.
To control the sheer volume of good ideas out there, I am limiting this guide to the Light, Ghost Sound, and Mage Hand cantrips. The Prestigitation cantrip will be in a separate posting simply to manage it better.

Cantrips have several advantages over other powers:
  • They are all at will, which can effectively mean ‘sustainable’ or ‘indefinite duration’
  • They require no attack rolls. Handy for someone who gets access through an item since ability scores don’t matter.
  • They can be used subtly unlike most other class abilities (note veterans: 4th ed does not include somatic or verbal components even though many DMs assume this)
  • They are readily available in cheap magic items
  • They are visibly non-lethal. While you don’t have to kill someone with a magic missile, bystanders can’t be sure whether you intend to subdue.
  • Most good uses will give a +2 situational bonus to your roll. You can effectively assist yourself in a skill check. In some cases, they open options you wouldn’t otherwise have (turning a drow’s face pasty white for a disguise)

Characters with social skills such as bluff or thievery often have better results from cantrips simply because they have more support skills. For instance, hiding an object in your palm may be handy, but when you are a good pickpocket it becomes gold.
Special note - A major problem with cantrips is the need for interpretation by the game master. This usually isn’t a problem as everyone loves good ideas, but it must be said that if you try to push the rules too far there is a chance that your good ideas will ‘stop working’.

Organization
I separated each cantrip into a separate post and into the following sections:
  • Pros – notable good things about the power
  • Cons – notable weaknesses or limitations of the power
  • Tricks – subtle strategies which may apply in multiple ways or change how the power can be used
  • Combat uses – Uses that could have a direct effect in combat
  • Non-Combat uses – Uses before, after, or totally outside combat
  • Questionable uses – Areas where some DMs may rule one way and others in other ways. Also powers which should be legal but a wise DM will shut down early as being just too good, disruptive, or plain annoying.

I don't see a reason to color the cantrips as a cantrip's power is really situational and subject to you creativity.  I'd just end up leaving everything as green.

Comments
This is my first guide, but I am open to any information or suggestions people post. I must give credit to the older guide , which started me thinking.
Presdigitation is found in another guide in the Char Ops Forum.
There are ten psionic cantrips available in the dark sun campaign. If this thread does well, I highly suggest another person start a second thread for those cantrips as they are more defined but open even more tricks and options.
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2 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2011 - 9:08AM #2
Stealthscout2
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 34

Light


Light can be the most useful and at the same time the most limited cantrip.  It can obviously save you a mint on torches and sunrods, but there is very little variation in the effects.


 Pros

  • Minor action to use- makes it useful in combat
  • The resulting light can affect places you don’t have line of effect to
  • Lasts a long time without upkeep (useful if you are killed or get stunned)
  • You can target an item or clothing on someone else without attack rolls
  • Negate as a free action (even off initiative)
  • Gives you the rare ability to turn on/off and move a light source every round with little effort

 Cons

  • Only one Light effect at one time is allowed
  • Can’t change the light’s intensity at all
  • You can’t cast light directly onto a creature so some monsters can’t be ‘lit’ easily

Tricks


Once put on an item, it keeps shedding light even if you teleport across the globe.  So, you can get around some of the range limitations if you are crafty.


It only lasts 5 minutes, so technically you have to keep renewing it.  Many DMs will make it simple and say that it has indefinite duration so long as you are conscious since that is easier.


More a warning: Don’t let people totally rely on your light.  If you are taken out of action, they can’t read the scroll to bring you back without light.  They should have enough light sources for one day if you disappeared at minimum.


 


If a skill check is required to use the cantrip this way, it is noted with ‘*’.


Combat uses


Light up a creature.  This is only possible when they are visible, but it almost negates the ability to hide and gives a much better chance to pinpoint someone that goes invisible.  At worst you will know where to get cover from them.  If they don’t have objects to light up, give them one with a slap of mud or barbed arrow or dart that hits.  If they are out of range, cast this on an arrow and when it hits you got it.

Related to the above idea, make a point of lighting up the creature for your buddies to target.  Makes you more of the leader, and makes the next one you light up easier to intimidate.  Wash, rinse, repeat

Light up an area far away.  Works wonders for ranged attackers so your guys can target them easily while you stay in the shadows.  Note it can be moved every round.  This works better if you pick up a Darkskull which can negate their light sources- but beware a darkvision creature.


If you can’t cover an entire area with light, use a minor action to light one area and then move it to another location with another minor action.  This allows you to pinpoint creatures in the darkness at least.


Have a light effect in your mouth and flash them a smile for a distraction and maybe a bonus to your stealth check.  Gold teeth are incredible for this one.


Turn it off for the enemy’s initiative as a free action.  If the enemy doesn’t have low-light or darkvision, they are forced to either take serious penalties (blind, -2 for concealment) or hold/ready actions.  Just relight things on your initiative, and potentially in a more defensive location. 


Non-Combat uses


Use like you would use a torch (duh).  But since it isn’t hot, put it in or on something that can be covered so you can control the light.  Try a pebble in your mouth or a false tooth.


A type of fireworks display can be done if your DM allows you to change the appearance of the light (if not the game effects)


Leave a light near your party and when the light is negated (create another light effect), they act.


‘Curse’ your rogue.  Unless they fight naked, that is.


Cast on something disposable and throw into the darkness to get a ‘flash’ of the area.  Repeat as needed until you see everything.


Questionable uses


Mock magical item – Light creates a lot of light.  So much that it’s kind of annoying.  Any item you ‘enchant’ this way would need to be a radiant item of some kind and need to have some other effects to pull off.  Kind of tough. *

Blinding enemies - Targetting someone's goggles obviously will blind them, but with this logical exception, it is very difficult to blind someone with Light.  At best, it could be a diversion casting it on the enemy's crossbow bolt just before they fire or something.
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2 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2011 - 9:08AM #3
Stealthscout2
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 34

Ghost Sound


This cantrip is often difficult to use without a lot of creativity.  This is largely because while the sounds you can create are only limited by volume it requires and often what matters is the specific sound you create.  The fact it takes a standard action for the wizard version also detracts from how useful it is in combat.


 Pros

  • Gnomes get this power as a minor action per encounter.  This enhances its use in combat but limits you to short distractions or ‘bursts’
  • The whispering effect is very handy as you can control who hears it
  • Not much in the game stops sound, and a ‘fighting creature’ can be heard for a long ways.
  • Long range of 10 squares

 Cons

  • Standard action to use – limits you to one move per turn and no attacks  (unless you are a gnome)
  • One round duration
  • Loud sounds can attract unwanted attention.  Crafty or simply realistic DMs can bring things into the current situation which you wouldn’t otherwise have to deal with.
  • The source of the sound cannot move throughout the round.  It can be difficult to mimic a moving creature, for instance.

 Tricks


‘One Round Duration’ can also be interpreted as ‘Standard Action to Maintain’.  All you do is continue the sound from one round to the other.  Out of combat, this is usually a must.


Sound goes around corners, so while the square of origin needs to be in range the sound can travel much further distances around corners, through doors, over hills, and more unlike other powers.


Sounds work better when the intended targets cannot see as they rely only on hearing.  If a creature has blindsight, just mimic airborne sounds and you tend to do well too.


 


If a skill check is required to use the cantrip this way, it is noted with ‘*’.


Combat uses


Make a sudden boom at the other side of the room, then have the party charge in while they are distracted *


Drawing the guard to a louder battle than yours- should buy you a round or two *


Make loud noise to cover the sounds of the party sneaking into ambush *


Make sound of someone approaching in front of your party to spring an ambush early


Bluff your party is larger than it is by making sounds of backup coming down the hall or around a corner. You can also bluff that there is a sniper by having ‘him’ make a sound on command to prove he is there (whistle, bird sound) *


If you just split the enemy and you know which one was the leader, you can send false orders to the other team.  (ex. ‘It’s a trap! Watch the flank!’, ‘The wizard isn’t over here - FIND HIM!’ etc.)  Conflicting messages may work just as well. *


 Non-Combat uses


One-way communication.  Just whisper into someone’s ear as long as they aren’t adjacent to too many creatures.


Entice a person into another area with an alluring voice, interesting noise, or a threat *


Make your party seem larger than it is by adding sounds of party members outside a room that can’t be seen. *


Change your voice into something different, but maybe not mimicking a specific voice (see questionable uses) *


By constantly making other confusing sounds (replaying words, speaking babble), you can effectively negate someone’s speech by rendering it unintelligible


For the non-skilled, keep mimicking the alarm from a distance (ex. a bell) until the guards stop listening for it.  You can then trigger the alarm and not get caught


Make someone’s space make noises to get them in trouble.  Works really well for cloaked, dark people as it’s hard to prove they didn’t do it.


It takes time and good trailing skills, but slowly drive someone to think they are mad by constantly whispering to them.


Make a mundane object seem to have special properties by making sounds (ex. extremely soft screams from an ornate jar, sound of the sea from a pearl, etc)


If you aren’t very good with words, mimic a sound and send it to the party member who isn’t close enough to hear.  Even amplify it to make it easier.


If hidden, keep yourself ‘talking’ as you run away.  Usually buys you one round of running, two if you are a gnome (minor action instead of standard)


 Questionable uses


Mimicking Voices – The power says nothing about how specific the sound can be, so in theory any voice you can think of can be created flawlessly.  Often a bluff skill or the like needs to be rolled to mimic a specific voice as part of a disguise, though.


Talking while gagged – 4th ed doesn’t have somatic or verbal components, so technically this works.  Some DMs won’t allow this on principal, though.  It could explain why your cultist-wizard can talk so clearly with that full-face mask on all the time however.


Transferring language – If you can take a sound and mimic it in a different location, you might be able to do the same with a language you don’t understand to another party member.  There would definitely be die rolls involved, but at least some portion would be useful.  Even one round of something obviously important could be sent and be very useful (‘stop- check for traps first’ vs. ‘count to three, then attack’ )


Music and mixing sounds - The description doesn’t define how complex your sound can be, but all of the examples are from one object/voice making sounds.  Most DMs allow you to make complex sounds like your own theme music, but once you start trying to mimic four specific people playing cards with moving chairs and sloshing tankards, you are pushing your luck.

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2 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2011 - 9:08AM #4
Stealthscout2
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 34

Mage Hand


 Mage Hand is the often most reliable cantrip as nearly anyone can understand the effect and works cleanly with the laws of physics (...mostly).  It can be especially useful in combat as even wizards get a fair number of minor actions to spare, while others (especially martial characters) could expect to use it every round if they want.


Roleplaying-wise, this is a power that apprentices should be using constantly for concentration training as it can last as long as you want and wouldn't disrupt other actions.  Wizards must be able to use every action they get.


Pros

  • Easy to understand – hard to misinterpret
  • Minor action to conjure, with built-in ability to move something 5 squares.
  • Can be sustained with a minor action indefinitely (more than 5 minutes, the limit of most powers)
  • Conjurations are immune to environmental effects (water/acid, lightning storms)
  • The hand can never be grappled or held, so if your hands are occupied you can still do things that require a hand to accomplish.
  • There is no written limitation that it cannot hinder creatures or cannot affect ‘attended’ items like Prestigitation.

Cons

  • Move action to move the hand after you conjure it
  • Limited to one hand at a time (but see tricks)
  • The hand is visible and obviously magical, though you may be able to tweak the appearance
  • Limit of 20 lbs lifting capacity (4 strength)
  • Cannot activate magical items at a distance
  • Cannot feel through the hand

Tricks


It actually takes less actions to make a new mage hand and ‘transfer’ an item from another hand in order to move it (minor action) than to move the hand from round to round (minor to maintain, move to move it).  To keep it simple, your DM can just rule that maintaining the hand allows you to move it 5 squares, though.


If you use two minor actions, you can move a hand 10 squares by creating a second hand (see above).  This could be handy when you get an extra minor action for somehow but your move action is already taken.


If you can carry 20 lbs, you should be able to drag more than that.  This gets into tricky territory as the hand doesn't have a 'light' and 'heavy' capacity.  This results in a range of 40-200 lbs per hand.

The Staff of Spectral Hands (AV) allows a wizard with decent wisdom to create multiple hands.  This opens more options as each hand can carry 20 lbs.  5 hands x 20 lb = a normal sized Halfling or a small anvil.  This can be equivalent to having an unseen servant but with no daily ritual cost.


Note: If a skill check is required to use the cantrip this way, it is noted with ‘*’.


 Combat uses


Switching hand-held items is twice as fast with the hand- it can stow and ready an item with a minor action instead of one or the other.


If you are a Bonded Summoner, the hand counts as a conjuration and therefore allows you to teleport with a minor action at will.


Get an item from/to an ally in combat.  Particularly useful with healing potions or thrown weapons that get lost when used at heroic levels.


Keep an item away from others by lifting it 5 squares up.  The Artifact of Super Bad Evilness is useless if theycan’t reach it.  Also removes most aura effects coming from it.


Sabotage the enemy before combat from a distance (glue in scabbards, hide items behind tables, tie their laces together) *


Hold up a light wicker or paper screen so someone can get concealment or even superior concealment (most screens can be 3-4’ wide and less than 10 lbs total).  Carry several of them around as they tend to get destroyed easily but this won't work in med-high winds.


General distractions (splash water, slide objects to make noise, punch a wall) to allow others to hide or get surprise


If a doorway can’t be closed, holding a staff, post, or other obstacle in the doorway can hamper movement (probably one square of difficult terrain, or minor action to remove)


If your familiar is in danger but it moves slowly (toad, unable to fly), move them faster


Silently point out the location of someone hiding


Swipe around for invisible creatures.  If a creature is in any of the 5 squares it covers, the hand will stop because it cannot occupy enemy squares.  It's visible to everybody too.  Use your move action and you can sweep 10 squares per turn.  If you have the Staff of Spectral Hands, the area you can cover is simply ridiculous.


If there is a large flat object (plywood, body shield), you can prop it up and use it to hide or get superior cover.  This might push the weight limit with any pressure, though.


Holding up a large shield can make a battlefield obstacle for the enemy.  It could prevent charges from dazed creatures (takes a move action to go around).


Pickpocket the enemy’s stowed weapon or ammunition.  Pickpocketing is a standard action, but there are few defenses against it.  Note you may need a minor action to get the item away from the target, or it just stays in that square.

Counteract any enemy use of Mage Hand


Buy a wicker or sedan chair and use it for an obstacle.  Using mage hand to distribute debris is sub-optimal since diagonal movement usually avoids one square easily.  An actual obstacle prevents diagonal movement entirely, and can also be used for cover in a pinch.  Sure, they can knock over the chair or attack it, but that costs actions and you can set it back up with a minior action.


 Non-Combat uses


Pull the mysterious lever or push the red button… and plan on surviving it


Doing general work without lifting a finger


Plug a hole… temporarily.  But the hole could be spewing acid and the hand is unaffected.


Open or close doors or containers


Hold a reading book up


Hold a door shut- this won’t stop most creatures, but it will stop them from opening it stealthily.  Release at the right time to make it socially awkward


Give a massage to yourself.  You deserve it (better with multiple hands –see tricks)


Arcane high-fives!


Instant rack or item holder.  You can even raise it to the ceiling for protection.


Getting the above item(s) back down, or off of a tall shelf


Grope the barmaid/patron/etc.  While you won’t be able to feel the touch, the side-effects are usually hilarious when done right. *


Constantly move a wheel for various uses (arcane perpetual motion machine)


Unlocking doors, setting off known traps, pickpocketing, and general thievery from a safe distance*


For traps you don’t see, roll a bowling ball or a heavy log around on the floor from a distance.  Usually faster than searching for the trap in the end.


Some tripwires are only set off by a fair amount of force.  Your hand can quickly sweep for them in a round or two but will stop if it hits one.


Assuming you have any control of the hand’s appearance, you can effectively mimic the ‘Hand of Fate’ ritual.  This nets both the ritual cost and the ability to control the party/others through your answers *


Hold a large mirror in front of you to see around corners.


Hold a straw man or small dead creature far ahead of the party to trigger ambushes too early.


Carry your torch or light 25’ ahead.  Unless a creature has low-light vision, this will put you in the ‘shadowy concealment’ range for defense, and illuminates things up to 25’ further away from you.


With enough hands (other party members or the Staff of Spectral Hands), you can effectively levitate very light party members at will.  A party of Halflings or Gnomes can really get some use out of this.


Hold up an object and treat it like a familiar (skull in particular)


Poke someone from behind and threaten them with your ‘stealthy rogue’.  Better when using a dagger, then using ghost sound or other effect to make it more believable.  *


Draw a message in the dirt from a distance to communicate


Threaten someone or their allies with a dangerous item or material the hand holds.  For instance, an item that damages with an aura, or green slime/glob of poison above a prisoner- if they kill you they or the prisoner ‘gets it’ instantly.  Also handy as a getaway trick since you can be 25’ away.


Communicate through hand signals at a distance or around corners


Create a hump-back as part of your disguise.  You can dispel it instantly as a cover.


Slap mud on a monster.  Combine that with the ‘light’ cantrip as now they ‘have’ an object to target (see light cantrip post).


Wake someone up if sleeping.  You can even have fun with it and drop something heavy since they are helpless


It may look weird, but it can function like glue or nails to hold something against a wall while you concentrate.  Posters, plywood, even a staff.  If used to block a doorway (ex. shield held across frame), it can be very annoying to remove.

A summoned hand is sterile.  Might be handy for field surgery.


Counteract the bouyancy of many common objects (rope, chunks of wood, hollow pottery).  With multiple hands, you could hold something big down.  Like a bound person.

Palm an item.  Sounds strange, but if you have all these spectral hands hangina around all the time there is no reason for people to think you have something small hidden in it at any moment.  Plus, you don't lie when you say 'it isn't on you'


Questionable uses


Distract in combat – Though you cannot attack and Str 4 is not enough to move most creatures, it should be annoying to have a hand keep grabbing your cloak, untying your shoes, have a dagger clumsily be shoved to your face, etc.  Arguably, this would be like a bluff check to feint once per combat and would therefore take both a skill check and a standard action.


3rd hand when bound – By rules, there are no somatic components so using a mage hand to untie your ropes or when you literally can’t move is legal.  Previous editions required somatic components, though so people don’t think this is possible.  From a story perspective, your DM may rely on your group being bound up and it is always dangerous to damage the plot.  Then again, you can't feel through the hand, so if they are bound behind you don't expect some quick escape.


Catch a returning weapon – With a readied action, theoretically a returning weapon can be grabbed before it returns to the owner because it is no longer ‘attended’.  This happens less in 4th edition, but that also means they won’t have multiple magical weapons to lose.


Arcane healer – by using a hand to move items to others, it stands to reason you should be able to pour a potion down a dying creature’s throat.  Technically, this works but some DMs may argue that this may not be possible (ex. laying face down, mouth could be closed)


Drop a rock on ‘em– Dropping a 20-lb rock/poison glob/alchemic item/fresh sheep’s bladder into someone’s square has effects.  Usually, this gets limited to large creatures or splash weapons only but sometimes this can be very effective (quick distraction, flour to find the invisible enemy through his tracks, etc.)

Flight at will - I'm only adding this because it can be argued - most DMs will just throw dice at you.  If each hand can carry 20 lbs, and you are a very light creature (ex. a gnome), technically you can use several hands from a staff of spectral hands to levitate yourself as a minor action.  This would require the staff, being a small creature (probably a gnome), a bag of holding for your things, and a very serious diet for lower levels, but theoretically possible.  The best argument against it was that this requires grapping yourself (yeah- read the posts), taking an extra standard action and leaving you with CA- but you will never have to climb again.

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2 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2011 - 9:14AM #5
AlphatheGreat
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 1,547
I am Alpha, and I endorse this thread.
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2 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2011 - 9:18AM #6
Nausicaa
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 3,101
Really looking forward for nice ideas. Actually i always use my cantrips, at least every time i can ^^
Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995

My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

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2 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2011 - 9:48AM #7
Krika
Date Joined: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 761
I agree about this thread.
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2 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2011 - 10:27AM #8
Stealthscout2
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 34
... I have a lot more editing to do....  ::sigh::

This is intended both as a guide and as a place to add on ideas or debate some questionable calls.  I'm sure people have done some other tricks with these powers.

Prestigitation coming, but I'm going to make sure this thread is stable before I tackle that mess.
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2 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2011 - 11:36AM #9
awaken_D_M_golem
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 2,653
Niice.

Jan 23, 2011 -- 9:08AM, Stealthscout2 wrote:

Distract in combat – Though you cannot attack and Str 4 is not enough to move most creatures, it should be annoying to have a hand keep grabbing your cloak, untying your shoes, have a dagger clumsily be shoved to your face, etc.  Arguably, this would be like a bluff check to feint once per combat and would therefore take both a skill check and a standard action.


Show up at a party with the Hand constantly fixing your suit to look even Natty-er.

3rd hand when bound – By rules, there are no somatic components so using a mage hand to untie your ropes or when you literally can’t move is legal.  Previous editions required somatic components, though so people don’t think this is possible.  From a story perspective, your DM may rely on your group being bound up and it is always dangerous to damage the plot.


I like it. From a story perspective, the King wants the party tied up ... oops ! But don't tell the King he was wrong.


Catch a returning weapon – With a readied action, theoretically a returning weapon can be grabbed before it returns to the owner because it is no longer ‘attended’.  This happens less in 4th edition, but that also means they won’t have multiple magical weapons to lose.


I don't like the readied action. I do like the possibility of switching weapons, instead of dropping one.


Arcane healer – by using a hand to move items to others, it stands to reason you should be able to pour a potion down a dying creature’s throat.  Technically, this works but some DMs may argue that this may not be possible (ex. laying face down, mouth could be closed)


I like it. Action economy rules.


Drop a rock on ‘em– The hand can’t attack, but dropping a 20-lb rock/poison glob/alchemic item/fresh sheep’s bladder into someone’s square has effects.  Usually, this gets limited to large creatures or splash weapons only but sometimes this can be very effective (quick distraction, flour to find the invisible enemy through his tracks, etc.)


Or an Alchemical item.


Good stuff ... but why should the "thread" be stable (wink).


 


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2011 - 11:53AM #10
Stealthscout2
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2009
Posts: 34
Well, no so much 'stable' as 'I'm not updating or cleaning up formatting all the time'. 

Prestigitation makes this list green with envy.  It's hard to organize it and leave space for the questionable uses or other judgement calls that have come up with just myself and not with everyone else's ideas.
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