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2 years ago ::
Jan 30, 2011 - 11:44AM
#461
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2007
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Because you bolded it, and because other people have already pointed to examples in the books that foster roleplaying out of combat, I will address the issue of Adventures. I will use the very first one, Keep on the Shadowfell, often subject of harsh criticism, unfounded I feel, given that it was the first adventure. The pilot is always a bit choppy.
KotS has a lot of pages devoted to how to run a game because it is an introductory adventure not just for the players but for the GM as well. It then has 10 pages devoted to 5 encounters and 5 pages devoted to the town for out of combat encounters, all of which is pretty aweful and little more than brief descriptions of NPCs and shops. It then has 1 further page devoted to out of combat questions and answers and then another 42 pages devoted to encounters as well as several other pages with general information such as how light sources are handled, background of the area and the like.
So lets see... 52 pages of combat encounters with tactics, maps and stats all layed out nicely vs. 6 of very general information which a novice GM would find difficult to use for anything beyond a hook to get players into the encounters and for shopping between encounters.
Of course back before all clerics came from Impiltur and all wizards came from Thay and had 4-12 bonus HPs and all the current crazyness, Irontooth put an end to most adventures in the 3rd encounter anyway.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman
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2 years ago ::
Jan 30, 2011 - 12:55PM
#462
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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Of course back before all clerics came from Impiltur and all wizards came from Thay and had 4-12 bonus HPs and all the current crazyness, Irontooth put an end to most adventures in the 3rd encounter anyway.
Which is why I am running KotS after giving my players a little space to level up.
They should be 2nd or third by the time they reach him. Probably second.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
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You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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2 years ago ::
Jan 30, 2011 - 1:12PM
#463
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Of course back before all clerics came from Impiltur and all wizards came from Thay and had 4-12 bonus HPs and all the current crazyness, Irontooth put an end to most adventures in the 3rd encounter anyway.
Which is why I am running KotS after giving my players a little space to level up.
They should be 2nd or third by the time they reach him. Probably second.
I just added a few magic items. Of course we lost two PCs and Irontooth ran them off three times...
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2 years ago ::
Jan 30, 2011 - 1:24PM
#464
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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Because you bolded it, and because other people have already pointed to examples in the books that foster roleplaying out of combat, I will address the issue of Adventures. I will use the very first one, Keep on the Shadowfell, often subject of harsh criticism, unfounded I feel, given that it was the first adventure. The pilot is always a bit choppy.
KotS has a lot of pages devoted to how to run a game because it is an introductory adventure not just for the players but for the GM as well. It then has 10 pages devoted to 5 encounters and 5 pages devoted to the town for out of combat encounters, all of which is pretty aweful and little more than brief descriptions of NPCs and shops. It then has 1 further page devoted to out of combat questions and answers and then another 42 pages devoted to encounters as well as several other pages with general information such as how light sources are handled, background of the area and the like.
So lets see... 52 pages of combat encounters with tactics, maps and stats all layed out nicely vs. 6 of very general information which a novice GM would find difficult to use for anything beyond a hook to get players into the encounters and for shopping between encounters.
Of course back before all clerics came from Impiltur and all wizards came from Thay and had 4-12 bonus HPs and all the current crazyness, Irontooth put an end to most adventures in the 3rd encounter anyway.
And this is why I am slowly losing my optimistic good nature. Someone will say something, such as "The 4E quests don't have any out of combat material!" I will respond with a list of out of combat material just drawn from one quest. They respond with, "That isn't enough."
Rather than play the guessing game, as fun as it is, why don't you just tell us:
1) What ratio (in terms of pages, because that seems to be the important measurement for you) of combat to non-combat stuff do you want to see in published adventures?
2) What sort of non-combat stuff do you want to see in published adventures? Be specific, give examples.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2011 - 8:16PM
#465
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2011
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Wound up DMing tonight because they were short one. Positive: They did make the encounter go faster; we finished well under the time we had. However, the reason why it went faster is because every time they used a card it was something spectacular, so it took away from the awesomeness of those spectacular events that were not card related. Maybe for generic/time limited Encounters they are okay, but I am continuing my ban on them.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2011 - 8:30PM
#466
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2005
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I love fortune cards, i will be using them in all my games. Though we are likely going to try new ways to play with them.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2011 - 8:39PM
#467
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2011
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I love fortune cards, i will be using them in all my games. Though we are likely going to try new ways to play with them.
What is it that you like about them? I'm not saying you can't like them; I'm just curious as to how they appeal to some people.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2011 - 8:48PM
#468
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2005
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I like how they encourage the players to slightly change their tactical decisions. It also keeps the players to pay a little more attention to the game at hand so as to best take advantage of them. To be honest I only got to see them in play once and i want to see how they go over for longer games but it went well enough over encounters.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2011 - 11:56PM
#469
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2003
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Oh, don't be so hard on FFSAA, he's just mad that WotC canceled the book he was really, really wanting:  But seriously, the day I need a bunch of charts and tables to roleplay or for a module to say "ok, roleplay now" is the day I hang up my dice and call it, friendo.
Knowing is Half the Battle.
The Other Half is VIOLENCE.
Imagine a lightsaber duel between Optimus Prime and Batman. You're welcome.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2011 - 8:05PM
#470
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2011
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I suppose one thing that swings slightly in favor of those opposed to these cards is that you now have the option of using Fortune Cards OR Renown Rewards. Found that out tonight at Encounters.
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