Last I knew, a customer asks what they are paying for for DDi and WOTC does not say anything. But they still take your money.
Wow! You must have gone through the suuper seeekrit top shelf probationary magic handshake only access subscription route. Everyone else went through a route that showed them (and told them) what they were paying for.
Its like changing the oil from a car: anyone can do it, but most dont and pay to do it, since the hassle and the mess isnt worth it.
Also, when you bring your car to get your oil change and pay someone for the service, you expect them to know what they are doing. When I bring my car in they always tell me excatly what they are doing to my car, why they are doing it, ect..
Last I knew, a customer asks what they are paying for for DDi and WOTC does not say anything. But they still take your money.
None of the examples or analogies so far justify stealing or copyright infringement. Stop paying if you don't feel you're getting enough in return. This entitlement to pirate just because you feel that what you're given is not enough is ridiculous.
If the mechanic makes a mess of my car on the oil change, a valid response is having him clean and repair the car, or withhold payment, not to spraypaint his shop or steal his tools.
Its like changing the oil from a car: anyone can do it, but most dont and pay to do it, since the hassle and the mess isnt worth it.
Also, when you bring your car to get your oil change and pay someone for the service, you expect them to know what they are doing. When I bring my car in they always tell me excatly what they are doing to my car, why they are doing it, ect..
Last I knew, a customer asks what they are paying for for DDi and WOTC does not say anything. But they still take your money.
None of the examples or analogies so far justify stealing or copyright infringement. Stop paying if you don't feel you're getting enough in return. This entitlement to pirate just because you feel that what you're given is not enough is ridiculous.
If the mechanic makes a mess of my car on the oil change, a valid response is having him clean and repair the car, or withhold payment, not to spraypaint his shop or steal his tools.
I'm sorry, I did not mean to say that stealing is ok. The point I was trying to make was that when you pay for a service, you expect the person that provides the service to know how to do what you are paying them for. With everything I have seen with DDi, it seems to me that WOTC has no idea what they are doing. But they still expect people to give them money.
Its like changing the oil from a car: anyone can do it, but most dont and pay to do it, since the hassle and the mess isnt worth it.
Also, when you bring your car to get your oil change and pay someone for the service, you expect them to know what they are doing. When I bring my car in they always tell me excatly what they are doing to my car, why they are doing it, ect..
Last I knew, a customer asks what they are paying for for DDi and WOTC does not say anything. But they still take your money.
None of the examples or analogies so far justify stealing or copyright infringement. Stop paying if you don't feel you're getting enough in return. This entitlement to pirate just because you feel that what you're given is not enough is ridiculous.
If the mechanic makes a mess of my car on the oil change, a valid response is having him clean and repair the car, or withhold payment, not to spraypaint his shop or steal his tools.
I'm sorry, I did not mean to say that stealing is ok. The point I was trying to make was that when you pay for a service, you expect the person that provides the service to know how to do what you are paying them for. With everything I have seen with DDi, it seems to me that WOTC has no idea what they are doing. But they still expect people to give them money.
Well, until you actually experience DDi, and the service they provide, for the cost, it seems your opinions are based on a lack of any first hand knowledge.
So I suggest giving it a try and then when you speak, at least you have actual knowledge to base that off of.
I'm sorry, I did not mean to say that stealing is ok. The point I was trying to make was that when you pay for a service, you expect the person that provides the service to know how to do what you are paying them for. With everything I have seen with DDi, it seems to me that WOTC has no idea what they are doing. But they still expect people to give them money.
And, as a non-subscriber, I don't plan on subscribing anytime soon. - I disagree with most of the conspiracy theories here, - I really don't mind that the magazines are ex-magazines (seriously, subscribing to a digital service to get a monthly magazine instead of a corrected up-front copy? "organizing" everything by dumping every monthly into the same folder? And what's the difference in any case, if I still have to use a 3rd party service to search PDFs, because opening each article or magazine quickly becomes not fun at all?). - I don't have an opinion on the cancelled books (I'll note that, if you want to cancel a line because the next big thing is coming, you don't change the format of a book that's ready and postpone its launch by a month, you just publish and are done with it).
On the other hand, I'd rather wait until - they actually publish the articles they said they're going to publish every month, and - do the stuff they promised to do with their online offerings.
Even then, it's actually rather hard that I'll invest because - I can't afford the luxury - I don't want to play online: I got the books to meet people at a table and do real social interaction. if I wanted to play online, I'd go WoW, that's already stable and playtested. - I actually like using paper and pencil. - I like having the books. Saves electricity, saves my vision.
Wizards is experimenting, and in my opinion, their real issue is they may not have a solid goal.
Assuming that everything was working (cb, mt, vt, etc, compendium) they have released products that basically give you access to *everything* in their books, without the need to buy books. So, to cover this, you pay $14/mo. For me, this $14/mo is about what I pay yearly on books, maybe a little less.
On the flip side, I no longer by books. I buy adventures, but my need for the books is basically gone.
As a result, they cannot or will not, give it away for free. Because of this, we are required to pay while they learn and experiment. Not saying its right, but I understand why they are charging.
Its a double edged sword really. If the compendium and cb were free, like the old SRD, then you wouldn't really need to by books to play. If you don't buy books, they get no money. No money, no products. So by that account, they cannot offer it free while they design and develope. Unfortunately, like many of you, this pisses me off as I feel cheated that they are basically beta testing with my money. I paid for a year, I will let my account go till it expires; but still, it doesn't make me happy.
Now they opted not to take this route, but I'll simply offer my opinion.
If the CB and MB were free, but they required you have a DDi account, to enter in book codes to *your* account, that then unlocked more than just the free first 3 PHB & MM levels, they would not only be ablew to offer this product free, but also still give a need for book purchases. Same goes for the monster builder. They don't even need to charge more, as you are already paying 34.95 (or whatever) for the book, you're simply unlocking the content. This, my opinion, would have been the way to go. On top of this, if you don't want Dark Sun, don't by the darn books or unlock the content. Then the 4e folks and the 4e Essentials folks can play together or separate.
It's not without issue. Book stores might need to now have their books shrinkwrapped. So? Put 1 book out for folks to look at, a special copy Wizards gives each store without a code. But, you can protect your codes.
Heck at this point, they can offer you the opportunity to unlock the content online only, for the same cost as a book in the store. I think it's nutts to pay $34.95 for the unlock code only but to keep FLGS happy and not pull from business, they could do it. In this way, when you buy the code, they simply unlock the content. You never actually get the code, so you cannot share the code, but even if they did give it to you, it's 1 time use, linked to your account with your name, address and cc information.
Long winded, but were paying for the content and the testing all that the same time because of the business model they selected.
EDIT:
I forgot my Dungeon and Dragon magazine comments.
I realize the folks who write the material are working, I understand this. I personally have never found the content to be earth shattering, and 50% of it isn't even rules based (ie something that need to go into the CB. MB, etc) material but yes... I do use parts of it, especially the adventures. You have many options with this. Continue to offer them as magazines online and also inlclude the content in the CB/MB/Comp. This works, but not sure its great.
Or offer them as free online content, let the new players see it, let the current players see it. Heck if you play off line with paper, feel free to use it. But, if you want the content electronically, and when the VT comes out you want the adventures built in and ready to go, then.... *THEN* allow us to subscribe a small amount each month to get the content added to our MB, CB, VT and Comp.
Again, all my opinion, unfounded and opinionated as it may be!
Its a double edged sword really. If the compendium and cb were free, like the old SRD, then you wouldn't really need to by books to play. If you don't buy books, they get no money. No money, no products.
The problem with this (and the last straw for me) is that this year, they aren't selling that many books. I don't want to buy board games and if I did, I don't need a D&DI subscription to have electronic tools that support them.
For me, at the end of the day, if the service from D&DI is once again dropping away then fine, I can still use the tools, assuming these are delivered since this gives me electronic support for the latest releases.
If the service from D&DI is dropping away and there are no new books then why should I re-subscribe. It seems to me that it's a flawed business model. I have bought every book since the release of 4E so I've spent something in the order of $700-$800 a year on print products (forgive my currency conversions since I paid in £s). This year, from the current product schedule, I will likely spend a quarter of that, if I even bother. In addition, I've been paying $6-$7 a month since day one for D&DI. What's the point in paying that now in order to get tools that may not happen and updates for four or five books. How can that be worth my money?
I have been loyal to the D&D brand for nearly 30 years but this might be the last year I spend money on this. That saddens me a lot but I will not pay for the poor D&DI service and half-baked publication schedule that they are peddling to us.
And before anyone jumps on this telling me to put my money where my mouth is, I have e-mailed Customer Service stating exactly what I have said above and have had a stock response saying my feedback has been passed on. I have responded and requested a proportional reduction for the remainder of my subscription to cover what I consider to be a stripped back D&DI service.
I think this might be the end of D&D. If not, we can expect 5E much quicker than most people thought.
EDIT: In case any WotC accountants pay attention to these threads, I usually spend a portion of my pay cheque every month on WotC D&D products. The first penny / cent that Wizards will get of my money this year will be in April (if at all) since there are no D&D books being published until then. Guess who gets my January to March book spend - Paizo! Someone dropped the ball here!
Uh... In case you didn't notice the red box under my screen name, I AM still paying for it. If anything, I think I'm entitled to having a product/service that WORKS when I am paying for it. I still have the classic CB, and it still works, but I am NOT getting any current/new information for it, and I refuse to waste my time with the online version. And honestly, if you think you were "renting" the Classic CB and the info that was downloaded to it, I imagine all the MP3s you downloaded through iTunes are due to be returned now. I'm sure you only paid for them once. You can return them to Apple by dragging them all into your Recycle Bin, while holding the Shift Key.
If you don't believe you are entitled to functional goods/services when you pay for them, see LlamasNotSheep's offer for the Swamp Land.
Yes, you ARE in fact paying for DDI. I saw that. However, you are NO LONGER paying for the Desktop version of the software. They are NO LONGER offering that product. It is obsolete. They will not update it, nor should they. They have moved it online. You are using the software through a loophole. It's something of an issue from where I stand.
With the old system, you could pay for a month, and enjoy the content for however long you wanted, without paying. Bad business model. Huge loss of money.
You DO have a product/ service that works. It's online and it works just fine. The fact that you refuse to use the online CB is a moot point. It's there, and it works. Simple as that.
As for the MP3s I download from Itunes. That's a retail transaction that gives me the song. I dont have to return it. It's mine forever. Theres a difference between that and a subscription to this D&D content. If you go to a bookstore and buy a D&D book, it's your book. You don't ever return it. If you pay them a monthly subscription fee to use the content, the day you decide you no longer want to pay, you no longer get access to the content. I don't see how hard that is for you to grasp.
You are not buying the content. In essence, you are renting the use of it for as long as you pay them.
Uh... In case you didn't notice the red box under my screen name, I AM still paying for it. If anything, I think I'm entitled to having a product/service that WORKS when I am paying for it. I still have the classic CB, and it still works, but I am NOT getting any current/new information for it, and I refuse to waste my time with the online version. And honestly, if you think you were "renting" the Classic CB and the info that was downloaded to it, I imagine all the MP3s you downloaded through iTunes are due to be returned now. I'm sure you only paid for them once. You can return them to Apple by dragging them all into your Recycle Bin, while holding the Shift Key.
If you don't believe you are entitled to functional goods/services when you pay for them, see LlamasNotSheep's offer for the Swamp Land.
Yes, you ARE in fact paying for DDI. I saw that. However, you are NO LONGER paying for the Desktop version of the software. They are NO LONGER offering that product. It is obsolete. They will not update it, nor should they. They have moved it online. You are using the software through a loophole. It's something of an issue from where I stand.
With the old system, you could pay for a month, and enjoy the content for however long you wanted, without paying. Bad business model. Huge loss of money.
You DO have a product/ service that works. It's online and it works just fine. The fact that you refuse to use the online CB is a moot point. It's there, and it works. Simple as that.
As for the MP3s I download from Itunes. That's a retail transaction that gives me the song. I dont have to return it. It's mine forever. Theres a difference between that and a subscription to this D&D content. If you go to a bookstore and buy a D&D book, it's your book. You don't ever return it. If you pay them a monthly subscription fee to use the content, the day you decide you no longer want to pay, you no longer get access to the content. I don't see how hard that is for you to grasp.
You are not buying the content. In essence, you are renting the use of it for as long as you pay them.
Just to add: This does not mean you are required to like these changes to the services provided. You are free to dislike the changes and (if the service is no longer of value to you) cancel.
. If not, we can expect 5E much quicker than most people thought.
