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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2011 - 12:06PM
#151
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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Not really. Most of the books that were pulled were Essentials heavy. The most reasonable conclusion is that they are doing something other than Essentials, what that is, is anyones guess...
That was my point. It's all guessing. That's all we get to do in these forums any more. Would be nice to talk about looking forward to a release rather than speculation about what is even coming.
Yes, but it's informed and reasonable guessing. Until and unless we get hard infomration, that's the best anyone is going to be able to do. Those that want to believe Essentials has done peachy keen will continue to do so. However, near as I can tell, the evidence and the reasonable inferences from it indicate otherwise, i.e. Essentials has failed to meet corporate expectations.
-Polaris
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2011 - 12:13PM
#152
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I see! Circumstantial evidence that may possibly under a blue moon be true is called evidence. Well following that logic I found 3 sites hosting essentials stuff so ergo essentials is selling spectacularly
To make a conclusion here, you need a comparison. We do not know if 3 is a large or small number for the circumstances. Thus our original example was lots of torrents of PH1 vs none for Essentials. So we need to know how many sites with PH1 stuff you would find with the same effort to decide how well Essentials is doing. [Now we can argue that PH1 has been out longer and/or has the attractive position of being #1, and so a difference is to be expected no matter how well Essentials has done, but this means that we might better compare with PH2 or 3 than with 1. But we still need to make the comparison to have a guess as to how well Essentials is doing.]
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2011 - 12:36PM
#153
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2010
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People upload books, music, apps etc to torrent sites because they want to share them with other people. Sometimes this is a good thing but most of the times is a common theft.
Fact is that I have bought some books from the essentials line and I did not chose to share them (for a variety of reasons), but still, I bought them... Even if someone asks me to scan and upload the DM's kit, I wont do it.
When we don't find a product in these torrent sites, the only logical conclusion is that the pirates don't like it!
English is not my native language, so I ask for your patience...
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2011 - 1:01PM
#154
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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People upload books, music, apps etc to torrent sites because they want to share them with other people. Sometimes this is a good thing but most of the times is a common theft.
Fact is that I have bought some books from the essentials line and I did not chose to share them (for a variety of reasons), but still, I bought them... Even if someone asks me to scan and upload the DM's kit, I wont do it.
When we don't find a product in these torrent sites, the only logical conclusion is that the pirates don't like it!
Yes, and if pirates don't like it, then that is an indicator that there isn't as much demand for it. Be it altruism or greed, pirates don't pirate things that aren't popular and don't move for the most part. Like I said before, it's just one leading indicator, but it is a leading indicator whether some wish to admit it or not.
-Polaris
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2011 - 1:38PM
#155
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People upload books, music, apps etc to torrent sites because they want to share them with other people. Sometimes this is a good thing but most of the times is a common theft.
Fact is that I have bought some books from the essentials line and I did not chose to share them (for a variety of reasons), but still, I bought them... Even if someone asks me to scan and upload the DM's kit, I wont do it.
When we don't find a product in these torrent sites, the only logical conclusion is that the pirates don't like it!
Yes, and if pirates don't like it, then that is an indicator that there isn't as much demand for it. Be it altruism or greed, pirates don't pirate things that aren't popular and don't move for the most part. Like I said before, it's just one leading indicator, but it is a leading indicator whether some wish to admit it or not.
-Polaris
Except Pirates as a rule don't pirate things that are;
- Percieved as cheap and easy to buy anyway (Like $20 softcover books).
- That the Internet fans don't like (and as I've proven here before with Math boards like these are not a representative sample) because they get their ideas on what people want from forums and social websites.
- Because Pirates are somewhat lazy, and the Essentials format books do not easily feed into a scanner and save at default size while they eat pizza and watch porn, many will ignore it.
- Just because people want it free and it sees common use does not mean that Pirates (who have their own opinions) will make a torrent of it. Try to find college textbooks for example. Expensive as ****, lots of people might like it free, damn near impossible to find.
In short, pirates are only an indicator of what Pirates want to pirate. They are criminals, not frakking Robin Hoods. They don't do it to help you, they do it to impress their friends, thumb their nose at rules.
Moderated by
ORC_Booker
on Oct 13, 2011 - 12:17PM
No one wins in the Edition Wars. The whole hobby loses. Wizards did not lose me as a DDI subscriber with the Online CB, they lost me long before that. And I have let my Herald Level GM Status lapse after 8 years. Wizards lack of support and the Edition Wars Trolls that are poorly moderated just managed to take all the fun out of public events. ~~ KT
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2011 - 1:46PM
#156
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Date Joined:
Oct 31, 2010
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People upload books, music, apps etc to torrent sites because they want to share them with other people. Sometimes this is a good thing but most of the times is a common theft.
Fact is that I have bought some books from the essentials line and I did not chose to share them (for a variety of reasons), but still, I bought them... Even if someone asks me to scan and upload the DM's kit, I wont do it.
When we don't find a product in these torrent sites, the only logical conclusion is that the pirates don't like it!
Yes, and if pirates don't like it, then that is an indicator that there isn't as much demand for it. Be it altruism or greed, pirates don't pirate things that aren't popular and don't move for the most part. Like I said before, it's just one leading indicator, but it is a leading indicator whether some wish to admit it or not.
-Polaris
Except Pirates as a rule don't pirate things that are;
- Percieved as cheap and easy to buy anyway (Like $20 softcover books).
- That the Internet fans don't like (and as I've proven here before with Math boards like these are not a representative sample) because they get their ideas on what people want from forums and social websites.
- Because Pirates are somewhat lazy, and the Essentials format books do not easily feed into a scanner and save at default size while they eat pizza and watch porn, many will ignore it.
- Just because people want it free and it sees common use does not mean that Pirates (who have their own opinions) will make a torrent of it. Try to find college textbooks for example. Expensive as ****, lots of people might like it free, damn near impossible to find.
In short, pirates are only an indicator of what Pirates want to pirate. They are criminals, not frakking Robin Hoods. They don't do it to help you, they do it to impress their friends, thumb their nose at rules.
You wouldn't happen to be Lawful Neutral by any chance would you?
Pirates are individuals, not a vast organization. They upload things for their own reasons, whether they want to share something they think should be free, give access to those that can't have it, impress their friends or make rude gestures at the producers of the material.
Crime, and indeed Law is not black and white, not matter how much the latter strives to be. :3
Moderated by
ORC_Booker
on Oct 13, 2011 - 12:17PM
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2011 - 1:48PM
#157
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You wouldn't happen to be Lawful Neutral by any chance would you?
Lawful Neutral to Lawful Evil, depending on sleep, coffee, and what new hell my classes have for me.
No one wins in the Edition Wars. The whole hobby loses. Wizards did not lose me as a DDI subscriber with the Online CB, they lost me long before that. And I have let my Herald Level GM Status lapse after 8 years. Wizards lack of support and the Edition Wars Trolls that are poorly moderated just managed to take all the fun out of public events. ~~ KT
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2011 - 1:51PM
#158
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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People upload books, music, apps etc to torrent sites because they want to share them with other people. Sometimes this is a good thing but most of the times is a common theft.
Fact is that I have bought some books from the essentials line and I did not chose to share them (for a variety of reasons), but still, I bought them... Even if someone asks me to scan and upload the DM's kit, I wont do it.
When we don't find a product in these torrent sites, the only logical conclusion is that the pirates don't like it!
Yes, and if pirates don't like it, then that is an indicator that there isn't as much demand for it. Be it altruism or greed, pirates don't pirate things that aren't popular and don't move for the most part. Like I said before, it's just one leading indicator, but it is a leading indicator whether some wish to admit it or not.
-Polaris
Except Pirates as a rule don't pirate things that are;
- Percieved as cheap and easy to buy anyway (Like $20 softcover books).
- That the Internet fans don't like (and as I've proven here before with Math boards like these are not a representative sample) because they get their ideas on what people want from forums and social websites.
- Because Pirates are somewhat lazy, and the Essentials format books do not easily feed into a scanner and save at default size while they eat pizza and watch porn, many will ignore it.
- Just because people want it free and it sees common use does not mean that Pirates (who have their own opinions) will make a torrent of it. Try to find college textbooks for example. Expensive as ****, lots of people might like it free, damn near impossible to find.
In short, pirates are only an indicator of what Pirates want to pirate. They are criminals, not frakking Robin Hoods. They don't do it to help you, they do it to impress their friends, thumb their nose at rules.
I never said that Pirates weren't criminals. I said that piracy was a leading indicator of demand and it is. Retails stores also use this as an indicatation of demand, i.e. if an item tends to be shoplifted then demand for that item is probably high.
I will address your points one by one:
1. You are wrong. It depends on how popular that item is. I have seen very popular torrents of paperback books which are considerably easier and cheaper to get than 20 dollar trade copies, so you are wrong as a matter of fact on this one.
2. You are assuming that the people that inhabit the internet are greatly dissimiliar from those that are Wotc's generic customer base. Ten years ago, I would have agreed with this. I don't any more. I think that the internet has become common enough that the internet sampling is a reasonable sampling of the customer base as a whole.
3. You seriously underestimate the work a pirate will do if an item is popular enough. Enough said.
4. College Textbooks and Gaming Books are apples and oranges. College Textbooks have a limited run for a very limited slice of the population which means they AREN'T popular in the same way a fictional novel or gaming book would be.
Try harder. I am not condoning crime in any way. I am just calling it what it is. ONE leading indicator and that is all.
-Polaris
Moderated by
ORC_Booker
on Oct 13, 2011 - 12:18PM
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2 years ago ::
Jan 17, 2011 - 11:32PM
#159
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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You download torrents to see if a product is popular?
(confused)
I look for the torrents/downloads to see how popular they are. Download a few to check their legitimacy. And yes there have been a couple "fraudulent" files that were labeled new versions but were actually old edition game books. If they are intentionally falsely labeled or done a good long time ago makes no nevermind to me.
So it's a two step process. Look for them to see how ubiquitous they are, download a few to check to see if they are what they say they are. If you get a bunch of old game books masquerading as new game books, someone is just trying to hype up the popularity of the book in question.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
Show
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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2 years ago ::
Jan 18, 2011 - 1:26AM
#160
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2010
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Download a few to check their legitimacy.
On the other hand, if you (me and everyone else) didn't download these files, WoTC would have never used as an excuse the "when I google "character Builder" i see first the torrent sites" thing and maybe we could still use the old, off-line CB, instead of the new one, which I have to pay every month in order to use it.
It is not a personal attack against you and maybe I can't express my thoughts very well in english, but I do believe that in some point, every one of us is responsible for someone that looses his job because we all have at least one song in our computer, or a pdf, or a programm that was not purchased legally.
Personally, I enjoy much more reading a book and I can organize my game better this way. I could have a million pdfs of all the D&D editions and even novels, an unlimited number of information right at my hand any time, but still, I would use my books... ( I am not against pdfs, I do love them, but I prefer the old fashioned way "turn of the tv, laptop etc and grab the pencil and a die, we (all of us) now have a story to narrate"...
English is not my native language, so I ask for your patience...
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