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2 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2011 - 8:42AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2010
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community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...There ya go. The last page or so kinda sums it up but you can go through it all for a more detailed discussion.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2011 - 12:54PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2011
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so here is the issue that I am having with my DM
he is saying that because i am a Hybrid, Avenger/Runepriest that in order for me to gain the rider powers associated with the powers, I must get the "rune master hybrid feat"
below is what he wrote:
PHP3 Pg 99 runemaster class features. the first line there says some of your powers have the runic keyword. when you are going to use a runic power ,you first choose one of the runes noted in the power~ the rune of protection or rune of destruction~ and then use the power applying the runes effects.
Then is goes on to talk about the other bonus you get as well
As far as I read the ability to use the runic keyword ability is tied to the class feature Rune master. I read all the forums I could as well and all of them are just players some might be a dm but none posted anything in writing published by wotc in any form I saw.
How you guys are reading this is that the rider effects of the powers are seperate from the rune master ability. is there a document somewhere written by a DM/GM of WotC that says what exactly is the right way to do this?
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2 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2011 - 4:08PM
#23
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He's wrong. If a power has the Runic keyword, you pick the rider. PHB3, look up the entry on the Runic keyword. Has nothing to do with you, everything to do with the power.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2011 - 5:05PM
#24
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I'd like to see a str/con runepriest|warlock variant with eldritch strike. Double attacks and sliding dudes into zones sounds neat.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2011 - 5:26PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2010
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Alcestis is right. The Protection/Destruction riders on powers are inherent in the runic keyword. You do not need the Rune Master feature. All that feature does is let you have the aura buff from being in a runestate. And that explanation was published in PHB3, but it is in the glossary under the Runic entry. It explains everything much MUCH more neatly than the Runepriest section does. So, yea...cold, hard RAW for your DM 
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2 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2011 - 11:01PM
#26
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I believe this build needs Hybrid Talent Runestate to benefit from Hammer of Vengeance PP.
Rune Powers are phrased... poorly... in the PHB3. There are two different explanations for Rune States described, one in the class description and a very different one described in the compendium at the back of the book. RAW I believe it works like this.
1. The Runepriest chooses Destruction or Protection when they attack with the power. They gain the benefits listed in the power. This WORKS WITH HYBRIDS. Example. The At-Will that reduces damage done by your CON score when Protection is chosen as its Rune.
2. They then gain a rune state based off the benefit they chose with the power. This is the Aura style bonus located in the front of the class. The character does NOT gain this as a Hybrid. Example. Entering the Destruction Runestate that gives all allies +1 to hit the monster.
2a. At this stage, if they have a PP they can give up this aura for their special PP runestate. As written, they need Hybrid Talent to gain access to a runestate. The Runepriest also gains the benefits from the power of either Protection or Destruction (depending on what they chose).
Both sections of PHB3 use similar phrases (I believe both call it Rune State) but try reading both and I think it is decently clear. It is very common to overlook however. The Build needs Hybrid Talent to benefit from Vengeance I believe.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2011 - 11:11PM
#27
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I believe this build needs Hybrid Talent Runestate to benefit from Hammer of Vengeance PP.
Rune Powers are phrased... poorly... in the PHB3. There are two different explanations for Rune States described, one in the class description and a very different one described in the compendium at the back of the book. RAW I believe it works like this.
1. The Runepriest chooses Destruction or Protection when they attack with the power. They gain the benefits listed in the power. This WORKS WITH HYBRIDS. Example. The At-Will that reduces damage done by your CON score when Protection is chosen as its Rune.
2. They then gain a rune state based off the benefit they chose with the power. This is the Aura style bonus located in the front of the class. The character does NOT gain this as a Hybrid. Example. Entering the Destruction Runestate that gives all allies +1 to hit the monster.
2a. At this stage, if they have a PP they can give up this aura for their special PP runestate. As written, they need Hybrid Talent to gain access to a runestate. The Runepriest also gains the benefits from the power of either Protection or Destruction (depending on what they chose).
Both sections of PHB3 use similar phrases (I believe both call it Rune State) but try reading both and I think it is decently clear. It is very common to overlook however. The Build needs Hybrid Talent to benefit from Vengeance I believe.
No. Entering a Rune State just means you used a power with the Runic keyword. You get no benefit from this (zip, zilch, nada) because you lack the Rune Master Class Feature. But you have, RAW, entered a Rune State, which can therefore be converted into the PP's Rune State. All of this keys off the Runic keyword and has zilch to do with the Rune Master Class Feature.
Also this is the second or third time this issue has been answered in this thread.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2011 - 11:41PM
#28
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I disagree.
I feel this is a common misconception and reading over this discussion I felt it was important to define rune states and where the two (somewhat conflicting) explanations for "What happens when a Rune Power is Used" can be found.
Looking at my book, a power gives a benefit based off Protection or Destruction, and this benefit is granted by the power. Using the power grants this Runic benefit and is granted by the power.
Rune Master Class Feature then gives a second state, as defined in Glossary (in the back of the book, not the character section) regarding Rune States, that grants an aura based off the option chosen in the power. This aura is what is replaced by the PP selection. This is also the Aura gained by taking the Hybrid feat.
If instead, for example, the Vengeance state was entered from powers (instead of the Aura afterwards) NOT A SINGLE RUNEPRIEST POWER would have ANY special effect because the Runepriest would lose them to gain his Vengeance State. Yet would he still enter his Aura state after the power was used? What is a Vengeance Rune Master Aura feature?
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2 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2011 - 11:53PM
#29
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I disagree.
I feel this is a common misconception and reading over this discussion I felt it was important to define rune states and where the two (somewhat conflicting) explanations for "What happens when a Rune Power is Used" can be found.
Looking at my book, a power gives a benefit based off Protection or Destruction, and this benefit is granted by the power. Using the power grants this Runic benefit and is granted by the power.
Rune Master Class Feature then gives a second state, as defined in Glossary (in the back of the book, not the character section) regarding Rune States, that grants an aura based off the option chosen in the power. This aura is what is replaced by the PP selection. This is also the Aura gained by taking the Hybrid feat.
If instead, for example, the Vengeance state was entered from powers (instead of the Aura afterwards) NOT A SINGLE RUNEPRIEST POWER would have ANY special effect because the Runepriest would lose them to gain his Vengeance State. Yet would he still enter his Aura state after the power was used? What is a Vengeance Rune Master Aura feature?
Sigh.
Rune State: You are then in the rune state associated with the chosen rune until you enter a new rune state or until the end of the encounter. Certain effects rely on you being in a particular rune state
Runic Keyword. Does the power have the Runic Keyword? Yes? You're in a Rune State. Because that is what the Runic keyword says it does. There is no possible debate on this point unless you want to just claim that the Runic keyword somehow doesn't say what it says.
With me?
Runepriests have a special class feature called "Rune Mastery." It states when you enter a Rune State (which is entirely dependent on the Runic keyword and has nothing to do with anything else) you get xyz benefit.
This in no way conflicts with the wording under Rune Master, which says you when you use a power with the Runic keyword you enter a Rune State (well, no duh, that is what the Runic Keyword does).
You are correct that a lot of people get this wrong, you're just wrong about which side is correct.
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2 years ago ::
Feb 04, 2011 - 12:05AM
#30
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Sigh.
Rune State: You are then in the rune state associated with the chosen rune until you enter a new rune state or until the end of the encounter. Certain effects rely on you being in a particular rune state
Runic Keyword. Does the power have the Runic Keyword? Yes? You're in a Rune State. Because that is what the Runic keyword says it does. There is no possible debate on this point unless you want to just claim that the Runic keyword somehow doesn't say what it says.
With me?
Runepriests have a special class feature called "Rune Mastery." It states when you enter a Rune State (which is entirely dependent on the Runic keyword and has nothing to do with anything else) you get xyz benefit.
This in no way conflicts with the wording under Rune Master, which says you when you use a power with the Runic keyword you enter a Rune State (well, no duh, that is what the Runic Keyword does).
You are correct that a lot of people get this wrong, you're just wrong about which side is correct.
Sigh.
Yes. I can see you are quoting from the Class Description of the Rune Priest. Perhaps, for the sake of the viewing audience, you should read the Glossary about Rune Powers. You may note in said Glossary it uses very similar NAMES for what a Rune State is, yet uses a different explanation of when powers trigger said states, and the choices the Runepriest can make about entering them.
In BOTH my posts I have stated there is a descrepancy in the Runepriest mechanics depending on where in the book they are read. This difference is very important for hybrids and paragon paths because Runepriests DO NOT WORK if you use your explanation of Rune States. They would lose all power benefits and there is no explanation in the PPs of what the Vengeance Rune State Aura is, or what it could do!
Summary
The Description in the Glossary makes PPs work correctly. The Description in the Class Section (which you have quoted) makes PP Rune States undefined and Rune Powers lose all benefits.
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