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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2011 - 11:01AM #761
Veok
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 2,481

Jun 30, 2011 -- 9:36AM, Thought wrote:

Veok, there are four (fairly minor) issues with your post.

First, as we discussed, to take another god's domain you would need to create an artifact, rather than claiming the domain.




Quoting from the rules on the wiki: "Domains are not exclusive; more than one god may have the same domain." Since The Silent One has only the one domain, I don't think it's fair to say that it was taken completely -- there would be nothing left for Anubis to come back to. Since the PP cost for an artifact is the same, I have no problem making a Macguffin, though I disagree with the necessity from a design perspective.

Jun 30, 2011 -- 9:36AM, Thought wrote:


Second, you would really should actually be near that god in order to take their domain (when I asked, you said you hadn't traveled to the Shadowfell, but that is where the Silent One is). As it is, this is getting fairly close to breaking the omni-nots (gods are not omnipresent, omniscient, nor omnipotent).

Third, currently the Silent One doesn't have a domain to take: you had said that Isura didn't remove the chains but rather severed their connection to the leash, but that means that the chains are still on him and still transmitting, just that nothing is receiving. Thus, those chains would really need to be removed or destroyed first so that there is a domain for your new artifact to take.

And finally, Pamora already cut off your access of viewing through Mulfrost, so there are no psychic tendrils for Isura to view the Silent One through.




As I see it, Isura is basically posessing Mulfrost currently, which means that she is only where the artifact is (and not omnipresent). However, Isura had already found The Silent One through the artifact (and it was that finding that triggered Pamora to restrict access in the first place). Pamora may have turned off the Neon Signage pointing to The Silent One, but since Isura already took the exit, it was irrelevant.

On an unrelated note, I think I have to ask you to perhaps reword your latest cantrip. As described, the 'fires' of both Phoneix and Embrin are the results of biological processess. In the act of snuffing the flame, you would actually be causing greivous harm (which is both beyond the scope of a cantrip and probably not what you intended in the first place).

If you look past the plot and the voice acting, Metroid: Other M was an okay game. Not a great game, but an adequate one.

Not using the Metroid item collect jingle though? That, was a mistake.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2011 - 11:41AM #762
Thought
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Posts: 2,340

Jun 30, 2011 -- 11:01AM, Veok wrote:

Quoting from the rules on the wiki: "Domains are not exclusive; more than one god may have the same domain."




To quote from the rules just two sentences beyond that point: "It is not usually allowed for another god to re-create a domain that is already in existence, but exceptions are possible if discussed in the OOC thread first." This was discussed on mibbit instead, and at the time it was said that you'd need to create an artifact. Since you didn't object then, I was a bit surprised to see your action in game. Do you have a particular reason for wanting to create a new domain (which, technically, would still leave the Silent One with his own version of it, even if it was allowed)? Do you have a particular objection to creating an artifact instead?

Jun 30, 2011 -- 11:01AM, Veok wrote:


As I see it, Isura is basically posessing Mulfrost currently, which means that she is only where the artifact is (and not omnipresent). However, Isura had already found The Silent One through the artifact (and it was that finding that triggered Pamora to restrict access in the first place). Pamora may have turned off the Neon Signage pointing to The Silent One, but since Isura already took the exit, it was irrelevant.




The objection was more towards your description. Yeah, you know where the Silent One is, but Mulfrost isn't telling you that. And, since you said you hadn't gone to the Silent One, you can't use Mulfrost to go there (not that you can't go there, just that Mulfrost isn't taking you). But since on mibbit you said that you are now there, this really is just a flavor issue. As for possessing the artifact, even if you were, Pamora basically kicked you out of it before the description that I am objecting too (she is in possession of the controlling portion of the artifact). But again, this is just a flavor issue.

Jun 30, 2011 -- 11:01AM, Veok wrote:


On an unrelated note, I think I have to ask you to perhaps reword your  latest cantrip. As described, the 'fires' of both Phoneix and Embrin are  the results of biological processess. In the act of snuffing the flame,  you would actually be causing greivous harm (which is both beyond the  scope of a cantrip and probably not what you intended in the first  place).




For the cantrip, think of it like stopping someone's heart. The heart beating is a result of biological processes, stopping it would cause great harm. But, stopping it just for a moment, after which it resumes, well that can be unpleasant, but it doesn't cause harm enough to be beyond a cantrip. The purpose was to get Isura's attention, after all.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2011 - 11:57AM #763
Veok
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 2,481

Jun 30, 2011 -- 11:41AM, Thought wrote:

Do you have a particular reason for wanting to create a new domain (which, technically, would still leave the Silent One with his own version of it, even if it was allowed)? Do you have a particular objection to creating an artifact instead?







Only insofar as that it'd be an artifact for the sake of creating an artifact. It's not like creating an artifact instead of a domain changes the PP expenditure.

If you look past the plot and the voice acting, Metroid: Other M was an okay game. Not a great game, but an adequate one.

Not using the Metroid item collect jingle though? That, was a mistake.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2011 - 12:23PM #764
Thought
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Posts: 2,340
A noble reason, to be sure, but I would object that this would be creating an artifact for the sake of creating an artifact. For example, if I had done as you did, then both Tireas and the Silent One's domains would be beyond your grasp. Presumably, Isura wouldn't know be aware of the Silent One (or of Pamora's general gathering of domains) if it wasn't for Mulfrost. So, it seems given the present situation that artifacts for taking domains are actually quite interesting for the current gameplay.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2011 - 1:27PM #765
Veok
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 2,481

Jun 30, 2011 -- 12:23PM, Thought wrote:

A noble reason, to be sure, but I would object that this would be creating an artifact for the sake of creating an artifact. For example, if I had done as you did, then both Tireas and the Silent One's domains would be beyond your grasp. Presumably, Isura wouldn't know be aware of the Silent One (or of Pamora's general gathering of domains) if it wasn't for Mulfrost. So, it seems given the present situation that artifacts for taking domains are actually quite interesting for the current gameplay.




It's an issue of, "I spent the PP to acquire the domain." "Okay, it doesn't count unless you make that PP an artifact."

Unlike some other gods, I'm not dragging off pieces of their body or literally binding them. It's recreating the domain via empathy, not sharing the domain in the literal sense. I'm not taking his domain from him, I'm reverse engineering it.

If you look past the plot and the voice acting, Metroid: Other M was an okay game. Not a great game, but an adequate one.

Not using the Metroid item collect jingle though? That, was a mistake.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2011 - 3:39PM #766
Topheh
Date Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3,804
To which I requote to you Thought's point.

Quote Show

Sorry, I can't for the life of me seem to get the actual Quote tag to work...


To quote from the rules just two sentences beyond that point: "It is not usually allowed for another god to re-create a domain that is already in existence, but exceptions are possible if discussed in the OOC thread first." This was discussed on mibbit instead, and at the time it was said that you'd need to create an artifact. Since you didn't object then, I was a bit surprised to see your action in game


As I see it, it was agreed that you needed to make an artifact to represent your borrowing/copying/taking of the domain, your lack of objection made it appear you agreed, and as you have said before, its the same PP cost to do either.  So why this fierce debate to prove your correctness on what I view as a very minor point at the end of a long game?  Its absolutely no skin off your nose to just do it this way, as that is how every other domain transfer this game has been done, so why do we have to again have a debate over pointless PP-spending semantics in this thread?  Please, just roll with it and lets try to have an enjoyable last week and a bit of this game.  
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2011 - 3:47PM #767
Veok
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 2,481
I already have.

All I asked was "what difference does it make?" As I was not privvy to the rule-making, I am simply trying to understand why things are how they are.
If you look past the plot and the voice acting, Metroid: Other M was an okay game. Not a great game, but an adequate one.

Not using the Metroid item collect jingle though? That, was a mistake.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2011 - 4:50PM #768
Thought
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Posts: 2,340
First, to get the business out of the way, sure, go for creating a domain instead of an artifact, Veok.

Second, Toph, to be fair, V could ask the same thing of us. As should be no surprise to anyone, I like figuring out how things work within a particular framework, and following that framework when it has been established. Though my original objection, since creating the domain was against the established framework. Doesn't mean that such a course of action is impossible.

And third, Veok, the difference is in the present situation. By making it an artifact, the original god can get it back if they waken, other gods can steal it, etc. By actually recreating the domain, well, none of that is possible. One provides a wide variety of possible interactions with other players, while the other is more of a declaration of your own intended actions. Additionally, this is how things have traditionally been done in this version of LoC. And even more additionally, you could have objected when it was originally said that you should have made an artifact. However, considering that it seems quite unlikely that anything will come of an artifact you make in the time remaining, it is a moot point. I still don't really see why you want to go this way, but I don't have a really compelling reason beyond what has already been said to say no, so sure, go ahead and stick with your domain.
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2011 - 6:20PM #769
Topheh
Date Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3,804
Veok, I'll leave Thought to correct me, but I don't think its quite that easy.   One of the things that Thought put into Mulfrost was that it had to be removed by 'another'.  As you removed it from Tireas only to put it on yourself, the same rules apply and you're not going to be rid of it quite *that* quickly.

If you and Thought have come to another agreement or if I am mistaken, then ignore me  
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2011 - 7:34PM #770
Veok
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 2,481

Jul 1, 2011 -- 6:20PM, Topheh wrote:

Veok, I'll leave Thought to correct me, but I don't think its quite that easy.   One of the things that Thought put into Mulfrost was that it had to be removed by 'another'.  As you removed it from Tireas only to put it on yourself, the same rules apply and you're not going to be rid of it quite *that* quickly.

If you and Thought have come to another agreement or if I am mistaken, then ignore me  




Isura never put the artifact on. She grabbed hold of it and pulled in a (vain) attempt to get Pamora's attention. I used the description of wrapping the chain once around her arm to get a proper grip (like one would do in real life if one were trying to pull a chain) but there was no PP action (cantrip or otherwise) involved with Isura wearing the artifact, by either myself or Thought. 

 

If you look past the plot and the voice acting, Metroid: Other M was an okay game. Not a great game, but an adequate one.

Not using the Metroid item collect jingle though? That, was a mistake.
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