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2 years ago ::
Dec 25, 2010 - 9:15AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2006
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So, the point of the assassin shroud is show that the assassin studies his targets to find a weak spot and then strikes for maximum damage. But the assassin doesn't match up to the other striker classes. So i was wondering if there is an insentive added to stack multiple shroud will it balance things out.
So after 2 shrouds the target grants combat advantage to just the assassin.
And if you have all 4 shrouds on something for the purpose of the attack in which you invoke your shrouds the target is considered helpless
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2 years ago ::
Dec 28, 2010 - 10:11AM
#2
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The majority of the Assassins I've seen played just shroud and invoke (if they hit, they deal damage comparable to a vanilla rogue's SA, if they miss, then Meh) and, once per encounter, stack two shrouds with Kiler's Insight and get to deal 1d6 on a miss.
They will also have Targetted for Death (Lvl 1 Daily) so they can start dealing that 1d6 on a miss each round (or 2d6 each round with a hit) one encounter per day.
If you want shroud stacking incentives, take the at-will that lets you deal slightly more damage per shroud as long as you didn't invoke the shrouds.
The Assassin is fine otherwise (though it could make do with a slight bump to hit points, I'm not too concerned about that since a good assassin will not be easy to target and/or hit.  Although, I wouldn't mind a feat that increased the die size of Assassin's Shroud.
Something like this:
Empowered Shrouds
Benefit: When you invoke your shrouds, the die size for each shroud increases based on the number of shrouds invoked. For one shroud, the die size is 1d10. For two shrouds, the die size is 2d4. For three shrouds, the die size is 1d8. For four shrouds, the die size is unchanged.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 28, 2010 - 11:07AM
#3
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Date Joined:
May 13, 2009
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And if you have all 4 shrouds on something for the purpose of the attack in which you invoke your shrouds the target is considered helpless
This is just brutal. You realise this means that the Assassin can use Coupe de Grace against enemies in the middle of combat right?
Especially when you add in the "start stacking shrouds before combat begins" so that they can open each combat with a Coupe de Grace. With a Vicious Fullsword...
I don't know much about the Assassin but anything that can give it access to the Helpless state so easily should be very carefully considered.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 28, 2010 - 7:56PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2010
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Hmmmm, not sure I understand the concerns here. I have a player running a revenant (shadar-kai) assassin in my campaign, and he stacks several shrouds on a particular target and then invokes them when he chooses. The target has never been "helpless" in any way. Often, when he chooses to invoke, he takes the target out because of the heinous damage, but given the size of the party, I don't think that's necessarily bad.
There are only 3 PCs in this campaign (2 if you take my defender out), and I haven't really adjusted encounters so far. If we have another PC or 2 join the game permanently, then I may reign in the shrouds. So far though, I'm not seeing a problem.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 29, 2010 - 7:43AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
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Yeah, my friend also plays an Assassin and he has no trouble with Shroud damage, and we're mid paragon. Granted, he doesn't do as much as the Barbarian we have, but he's also not really optimized or anything.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 05, 2011 - 7:30PM
#6
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The only necessary changes for Shroud are for it to 1. only dispel on a miss and 2. have Hidden Insight built into its basic features, with the Hidden Insight feat instead making people unaware you're shrouding them at all.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 06, 2011 - 8:00AM
#7
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The only necessary changes for Shroud are for it to 1. only dispel on a miss and 2. have Hidden Insight built into its basic features, with the Hidden Insight feat instead making people unaware you're shrouding them at all.
Only dispel on a hit, surely? Since if you do it on a miss you double-penalise the Assassin character for missing . . . or double-benefit them from hitting if you prefer to see it that way . . . but in any case losing the shrouds on a miss but not a hit makes hit/miss more diverse and the impact of the character on combat more random/swingy.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 06, 2011 - 10:25AM
#8
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No, only vanish on a miss.
Shroud's fundamental problem is that it does not function correctly in a party combat situation because it requires multiple rounds of not using it in order to work. Changing it to only vanish on a miss raises its damage to be comparable to Sneak Attack over several turns vs. the same target (still weaker, but not so drastically) and makes it work right in normal combat rather than only the once per campaign when you have the drop on some guy and everyone else is willing to sit on their thumbs so you can shroud him for 4 turns before combat starts.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 07, 2011 - 5:25PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2010
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the assasin in my group has no issues, I do feal shroud is weaker then Sneak attack since it takes 2 rounds to do 2d6 damage where a rouge can sneak attack (with the right feat selection) prety much every single attack. However that garenteed damage even on a miss if 2 or more shouds are there makes up for the damage loss. I mean the assasin can shroud 1 target hit adifrent one then target the one it shouded once it is ready to use them. Also against bosses and junk that can be hard to hit shroud works great spcialy with the marked for death on. Curently having my player try out a hybrid rouge assasin so she can use sneak attack and drop a shroud 1 round then use the shroud the next then back to sneak attack. I think this combo will be very nice but hybrids can only stack 2 shrouds wich sucks. think shroud stacking (during combat) should be unrestricted.
An' ye harm none, do what ye will
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2 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2011 - 5:16AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2010
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Only dispel on a hit, surely? Since if you do it on a miss you double-penalise the Assassin character for missing . . . or double-benefit them from hitting if you prefer to see it that way . . . but in any case losing the shrouds on a miss but not a hit makes hit/miss more diverse and the impact of the character on combat more random/swingy.
All striker damage mechanics 'double-penalize', as you say, for missing. Sneak attack, hunters quarry etc all do nothing on a miss, don't see why the assassin should be different.
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