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Aug 26, 2011 -- 8:33PM, draconisorion wrote:

For the ICY SHOOTER build, is there some reason at level 10 the CB wont let me select Shadow Master?

Without seeing your actual CB build, best guess is not MC'd Rogue. Shadow Master is a rogue utility.

The Icy Shooter build example is MC'd Ranger.

Aug 26, 2011 -- 9:37PM, Addrenalynn wrote:

Aug 26, 2011 -- 8:33PM, draconisorion wrote:

For the ICY SHOOTER build, is there some reason at level 10 the CB wont let me select Shadow Master?

Without seeing your actual CB build, best guess is not MC'd Rogue. Shadow Master is a rogue utility.

The Icy Shooter build example is MC'd Ranger.

Sorry, it is the Icy shooter build above...he has level 10 Shadow Master...I have played a few rogues, and I knew it was a rogue feat.   Thats why I asked if there was something special Litigation did in the build to allow the feat.

Draco

Aug 26, 2011 -- 9:39PM, draconisorion wrote:

Aug 26, 2011 -- 9:37PM, Addrenalynn wrote:

Aug 26, 2011 -- 8:33PM, draconisorion wrote:

For the ICY SHOOTER build, is there some reason at level 10 the CB wont let me select Shadow Master?

Without seeing your actual CB build, best guess is not MC'd Rogue. Shadow Master is a rogue utility.

The Icy Shooter build example is MC'd Ranger.

Sorry, it is the Icy shooter build above...he has level 10 Shadow Master...I have played a few rogues, and I knew it was a rogue feat.   Thats why I asked if there was something special Litigation did in the build to allow the feat.

Draco

No worries... I saw the Icy build with Warrior of the Wild as the level 1 feat and rambled from there Not enough sleep before trying to think...

I'm curious how he did it now as well... thinking it could be CB error or typo. The Cold Charger is MC Rogue w/ Shadow Master @ 10.

Aug 26, 2011 -- 9:50PM, Addrenalynn wrote:

Aug 26, 2011 -- 9:39PM, draconisorion wrote:

Aug 26, 2011 -- 9:37PM, Addrenalynn wrote:

Aug 26, 2011 -- 8:33PM, draconisorion wrote:

For the ICY SHOOTER build, is there some reason at level 10 the CB wont let me select Shadow Master?

Without seeing your actual CB build, best guess is not MC'd Rogue. Shadow Master is a rogue utility.

The Icy Shooter build example is MC'd Ranger.

Sorry, it is the Icy shooter build above...he has level 10 Shadow Master...I have played a few rogues, and I knew it was a rogue feat.   Thats why I asked if there was something special Litigation did in the build to allow the feat.

Draco

No worries... I saw the Icy build with Warrior of the Wild as the level 1 feat and rambled from there Not enough sleep before trying to think...

I'm curious how he did it now as well... thinking it could be CB error or typo. The Cold Charger is MC Rogue w/ Shadow Master @ 10.

Yep, I am the same....too tired to think straight.  I like the ICY build for my Drow or Vryloka, so I just need to find another level 10 feat that may work to strengthen the build.

Shadow Master is the feat that lets Executioners pick as Assassin daily power in pace of one of their poison uses. It's from the D 400 Hybrid and Multiclass Options article. It's not a Rogue feat. Where are you all getting that crap from?

Confusion due to WotC giving powers and feats the exact same name... and D400 hybrid info not being in the Compendium yet, so a search for Shadow Master will pull up the power and not the feat...

Of course, if I had been awake when I originally posted, I might have noticed I was looking at the feat section of Icy and not the power section.
---------------
I knew I took this weekend off for some reason... back to sleep I go.

Aug 26, 2011 -- 11:29PM, Litigation wrote:

Shadow Master is the feat that  lets Executioners pick as Assassin daily power in pace of one of their  poison uses. It's from the D 400 Hybrid and Multiclass Options article.  It's not a Rogue feat. Where are you all getting that crap from?

Ok for my own edification, how do you select it within the Character Builder....I just cant find a way to select it....I apologize if it is fairly easy, but I am missing it.

So, where does the Executioner rank amongst strikers nowadays?

Aug 27, 2011 -- 6:36AM, Samrin wrote:

So, where does the Executioner rank amongst strikers nowadays?

Meh, it is workable but lacks lots of multi-attacks, and it lacks encounter and daily powers that can be swapped out. Overall this means there are fewer options for optimizing DPR compared to a ranger or rogue. 

Aug 27, 2011 -- 6:34AM, draconisorion wrote:

Ok for my own edification, how do you select it within the Character Builder....I just cant find a way to select it....I apologize if it is fairly easy, but I am missing it.

You can't.  It hasn't been added to the Character Builder yet. 

Aug 27, 2011 -- 6:45AM, Grondag wrote:

Aug 27, 2011 -- 6:36AM, Samrin wrote:

So, where does the Executioner rank amongst strikers nowadays?

Meh, it is workable but lacks lots of multi-attacks, and it lacks encounter and daily powers that can be swapped out. Overall this means there are fewer options for optimizing DPR compared to a ranger or rogue. 

On the other end of the spectrum, Hybrid executioner amounts to free DPR boost on any strikers that spam MBAs.

10 second Edit: OK, not "free" DPR, but fairly inexpensive.

Aug 27, 2011 -- 8:42AM, Rubbahduckie wrote:

Aug 27, 2011 -- 6:34AM, draconisorion wrote:

Ok for my own edification, how do you select it within the Character Builder....I just cant find a way to select it....I apologize if it is fairly easy, but I am missing it.

You can't.  It hasn't been added to the Character Builder yet. 

Ok, thanks!!  Good that I am not going insane!

Aug 27, 2011 -- 5:34PM, draconisorion wrote:

Aug 27, 2011 -- 8:42AM, Rubbahduckie wrote:

Aug 27, 2011 -- 6:34AM, draconisorion wrote:

Ok for my own edification, how do you select it within the Character Builder....I just cant find a way to select it....I apologize if it is fairly easy, but I am missing it.

You can't.  It hasn't been added to the Character Builder yet. 

Ok, thanks!!  Good that I am not going insane!

Yet. 

Hey guys, I'm attempting to build an Lvl10 executioner in the CB, and attempting to do a swap a poison with a Ranger daily via Adept Power, and it doesn't seem to allow me to do so anywhere.

On the feats page, there are two greyed out boxes that say "Choose an Adept Power Option (Optional)". I also see that the lvl1 poisons are on the Class tab, rather than the Powers tab.  Is that part of the problem?  Does the CB not recognize the ability to do these swaps?  Is it actually legal? (Yes, I am aware that CB is not a rules authority, that's why I'm asking here.)

You are correct - Executioners don't get Daily Powers, thus can't swap them. 

Oh, thanks. I thought I'd seen discussion throughout this thread about the ability to swap out those poisons for daily powers.

That's when you take the feat (Master of Shadows, I think?) that first allows you to swap your highest level poison out for an Assassin Daily power. Then you use Adept Power to swap out that Daily for another's class' Daily power.

Not sure if the new CB understands that though. But it's legal. 

Oh, that makes sense!  You use one feat to switch from poison to power, then use Adept Power to swap it for another Daily.  Dang, that's a deep investment..

Another way to get another class' daily is to go hybrid...

On that topic, I made a hybrid Executioner|Warlock build. Virtually perma-hidden from 11 onwards, benefits from Attack Finesse and Warlock's Curse on at-will attacks, very useful in skill challenges, ~120DPR at level 30.

Hi - could someone assist me in building this character on a level by level basis?

Our group is reforming after a few month hiatus, some member have changed so we're remaking the party at the same level we were. (level 4).

I'd like to do the execution, the ranged/cold version the OP has listed, but I can't figure out how to do everything in character builder.

The Ki Focus, the Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold, having 2 crossbows?  

Any help would be greatly appreaciated on or/off the forum.  Maaksel@gmail.com

Thanks! 

This is currently what I have:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Belgos, level 4
Drow,
Assassin (Executioner)
Assassin Guild Technique: League of Whispers
Darkfire Option: Darkfire Charisma 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES STR 12, CON 11, DEX 19, INT 11, WIS 8, CHA 19 
STARTING ABILITY SCORESSTR 12, CON 11, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 8, CHA 16  AC: 20 Fort: 15 Ref: 18 Will: 18HP: 38 Surges: 7 Surge Value:
Drow Racial Power: Darkfire
Assassin Attack: Assassin's Strike
Assassin Attack: Bola Takedown
Assassin Attack: Precision Dart
Assassin Attack: Quick Shot
Hunter's Quarry  Power: Hunter's Quarry
Assassin Utility 2: Cloak of Shades 

FEATS
Level 1: Two-Weapon DefenseLevel  1: Warrior of the Wild
Level 2: Ruthless Hunter
Level 4: Master at Arms 

ITEMS
Bloodroot Poison
Carrion Crawler Brain Juice
Leather Armor
Adventurer's Kit
Poisoner's Kit
Dagger x1
Frost Hand crossbow +1 x1
Magic Ki Focus +1 x1
Bola Blowgun
Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (heroic tier


But I can't figure out how to equip the merciless shard 

Any updates coming for the Ninja?

For the Ninja ... Pixies can always get CA with the sword charge at-will.

Has anyone touched on the wood elf option for elves granting a free stealth check after rollining initiative if they have concealment?

If you also take a warlock MC feat and have cursed shadow, this means you start every combat hidden. That sounds like a strong build for red scales especially considering you don't give up your free elf encounter reroll.

Online CB seems to be seriosuly bugged right now.

(ninja)
I put a kuri sama as the only weapon and it is allowing it for usage in both atwill melee attacks. It is also displaying +2d8/turn extra adamae at level 1 (rather than 1d8).....

One of my players wanted to play a ninja type characters but I dont want to be arguing with him with all these flaws O_o

Feb 25, 2012 -- 10:50PM, windgate wrote:

Online CB seems to be seriosuly bugged right now.

(ninja)
I put a kuri sama as the only weapon and it is allowing it for usage in both atwill melee attacks. It is also displaying +2d8/turn extra adamae at level 1 (rather than 1d8).....

One of my players wanted to play a ninja type characters but I dont want to be arguing with him with all these flaws O_o

The blade end of kugari-sama can be used as ninjato, no?

And confirmed that attack finess should only be +1d8 instead of +2d8 as it is on the CB right now.  Attack finess even works with shuriken right now as +2d8 damage bonus.

The 2nd Level utility power "Smoke Bomb" ist lost in the rating section. Would be nice to see.

I'm correct in assuming that Spiked Chain Training works for executioners, because a double weapon is the same as two one-handed weapons...right? Not getting Attack Finesse bonus damage would kind of be a deal breaker, obviously.

Well you could take Master of Shrouds I guess <_<

While i know that the whirling kursai-gami does require you to make two atack rolls, and unfortunately doesn't give let the sickle count as a heavy blade, doesn't this allow for adding static bonuses twice, for example if you go for hidden every round an attack that can apply to instants of damage is nice, it also provides two opportunities to get off your assassains strike attack and attack finese, since you are only not hidden after the attack is complete i think. While to do it you do need to be a hybrid and spend your talent and multi class feats to do it, a ninja can be hidden every round. 

Also while you only get your mod on the first attack,  at herioc your mod should be atleast +5 which is around the average damagae from a d10 weapon and no double attack at-will ever adds you mod so they are not really losing out on damage, especially when you factor in the fact that the first attack is against reflex, and i have just noticed now that you only seem to get the secondary if you hit with the first.

I dont think that Whirling Kusari-Gama should be rated that low, true at first the power does basic attack damage as if you were useing a +2, 1d6 weapon but it does improve as you level.

this is because the striker D8's can be applyed to any damage you deal with a weapon of the correct type, and that makes it count as a damage roll.

you also can do poison damage twice because that too does not require a damage roll.

this means that you double poison damage if you are useing one of the strait damage poisons (and you should, they are the best by far) and you double any damage rolls increasers. including feat bonuses to damage, iron arm bands of power ect.

and you get to knock a target prone, and shift 1 (usefull for things that trigger off of shifting) and if you had brain juice on it they are slowed as well.

while yes you have to hit twice, the second hit is when they are prone so you should have CA, and its with a light blade so you can get the feat to increase CA to 3 with it.

Jul 28, 2012 -- 9:48PM, captpike wrote:

this is because the striker D8's can be applyed to any damage you deal with a weapon of the correct type, and that makes it count as a damage roll.

No, it does not. Attack Finesse is specifically classified as extra damage, which does not magically turn anything into a damage roll.

Jul 29, 2012 -- 3:24AM, Litigation wrote:

Jul 28, 2012 -- 9:48PM, captpike wrote:

this is because the striker D8's can be applyed to any damage you deal with a weapon of the correct type, and that makes it count as a damage roll.

No, it does not. Attack Finesse is specifically classified as extra damage, which does not magically turn anything into a damage roll.

according to the RC, a damage roll is whenever you roll for damage, and extra damage is in no way different from damage, eg 2 point of damage and 1d8 of extra damage is the same as 1d8+2 points of damage.

before the RC you were correct but the RC changed the rules

RC page 222, a damage roll is "a roll of a die to determine damage"

In no way does that overrule the classification of extra damage and it being separate from the attack power's damage and whether it is a roll or not.

This has been discussed countless times here. You are wrong. Straight up.

Jul 29, 2012 -- 12:45PM, Litigation wrote:

In no way does that overrule the classification of extra damage and it being separate from the attack power's damage and whether it is a roll or not.

This has been discussed countless times here. You are wrong. Straight up.

then please tell me how I am wrong, because I dont see it. either A) it is not a damage roll (it is a roll for damage what is all the RC seams to care about, or B) because the d8 is extra damage it does not count (but the RC does not make any difference between extra damage and damage)

so which one of these is wrong and why.

Jul 29, 2012 -- 12:45PM, Litigation wrote:

In no way does that overrule the classification of extra damage and it being separate from the attack power's damage and whether it is a roll or not.

This has been discussed countless times here. You are wrong. Straight up.

No such classification exists. The original idea that such a distinction existed was contained in the PHB magic item rules and no where else and even that paper thin mention is completely gone. The RC defines a damage roll as any time you roll dice for damage, you are making a damage roll. It is quite explicit.

The best counter-argument that exists is the obvious one, which is "It probably isn't RAI." Except that isn't a rules argument.

It has been debated multiple times. There has, as yet, not been a single counter-argument based on the rules that acknowledges the explicit definiton of damage rolls in the RC. Hand waving it away is, obviously, not a valid argument.

So basically, the best current answer is that there is no concrete interpretation of how dmg functions in this context?

Aug 15, 2012 -- 9:49PM, Fortezanzo wrote:

So basically, the best current answer is that there is no concrete interpretation of how dmg functions in this context?

The best current answer is the one that follows the RC (i.e. the one Alcestis gave)...

But it's been debated at great length in many threads, and there's still a high incidence of people disagreeing.

Aug 15, 2012 -- 10:23PM, ThatWasTotallyNinja wrote:

Aug 15, 2012 -- 9:49PM, Fortezanzo wrote:

So basically, the best current answer is that there is no concrete interpretation of how dmg functions in this context?

The best current answer is the one that follows the RC (i.e. the one Alcestis gave)...

But it's been debated at great length in many threads, and there's still a high incidence of people disagreeing.

Ah, thanks. Just wanted to confirm; good to know.

If, say, you have a weapon of speed +1 and a +2 ki focus, can you use the weapon of speed's power to make a minor action attack, and then apply the ki focus enhancement bonus to the minor action attack?

If so, that seems very, very good, particuarly for the nova round.

For anyone who saw this post earlier, I accidentally copied/pasted here instead of an email to my friend, so that explains the random link.  Updated with actual content!



So, said friend is making an Assassin, I suggested Executioner, and he's on board.  I like to optimize with a dash of style, rather than pure damage or whatever, so we're rummaging for ideas.


So, I Heard U Liked Poison
Anyway, we found the feat that allows Poison to ignore all resistances, and also saw the Spiderkissed weapon, which allows for always-on poison damage.  Sounds awesome.

Problem is, we can't find much to... do... with that.   All I've found is the Athasian Minstrel theme.  

Are we overlooking some new/cool stuff, or is there just not much support for poison?  I swear there were a few feats and items to increase poison damage, but the only one I could find was the standard +2/3/4 damage.



Current Build
At this point, pretty much everything is still up in the air, and we're looking for a cool theme (not necessecarily a Theme) to latch on to.  I was pitching the idea of a Revenant|Dragonborn with Poison breath, and whatever else we can think of to expand upon that.

He was kind of interested in a Revenant|Gith using either a Fullblade or a Bastard Sword.  I talked him down to bastard sword to take advantage of Two Weapon Defense.


More Details
We're starting a campaign at level 11, pretty much anything goes, although (again) I find too much cheeze distasteful.  My friend isn't interested in charging, either, so none of that.

We have a solid tank (warden) a blaster (chaos sorcerer) and a bard.
Pretty much all the players are optimizing to the specifications discussed above (reasonable optimization with a particular playstyle/concept in mind).



Ignore This Show  

Note that Attack Finesse no longer works with 2h weapons, anyway. 

The Whirling Kusari-gama at-will has at least one good niche use that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere.  The Moonstalker paragon path, which requires being a Shifter, grants extra damage when htting a prone target with a melee attack (1d6 at 11th, 2d6 at 21st).  Furthermore, at 16th, when you're adjacent to a prone enemy, you get to add +Wis to to damage rolls. 

All that extra damage would apply to the second attack from Whirling Kusari-gama, since the first attack prones.  Usually the difficulty with getting the Moonstalker damage to trigger (at least consistently) is that the enemy you prone is likely to get a chance to stand up before you get another chance to attack.

Edit - Gauntlets of Brutality would add on another 5 damage to the second attack.

Any opinions about how to rate the level 2 utility Smoke Bomb from dragon 404 (which seems to have been missed)?  Seems black or maybe dark blue to me, if only for being an immediate (executioners don't seem to have many of them availble) and allowing you to shift your speed.

Hi,


I'm new to strikers and want to take a shot at playing an Executioner. I'll be starting at lvl 7 and so far have chosen to be a Vryloka Red Scale Executioner Alchemist that is MC in Rogue for the sneak attack + garrote. I want some Charisma for RP, bluff, disguise, diplomacy, intimidate, streetwise.

STR 16  CON 10  DEX 19  INT 6  WIS 10  CHA 19

I took Silent Stalker & Vanish. I'll be using garrote/ rapier+dagger.


Are the poisons daily uses or can you keep re-applying them for each encounter? Is the Bloodroot poison completely expended after 1 hit?

So I figure I will try to always stealth/hide/Silent Stalker/suprised/combat advantage/Garrote Strangle+Sneak Attack+Assassin's Strike+Attack Finesse+Bloodroot Poison as my opener.

Then can I use Vanish to go teleport and hide again and then stealth/hide/Silent Stalker/suprised/combat advantage/Garrote Strangle+Attack Finesse+Nitharit poison.

If I take Rappid Assult feat do I get the +2 to melee damage rolls for each of Garrote Strangle+Sneak Attack+Assassin's Strike+Attack Finesse? What about Dirty Fighting - do I get +4 with all those 4?

Does anyone have a good Red Scale Executioner build for up to lvl 11 and a write up of the best combat techniques for them?

What are the best ways to stay/return to being hidden beforecombat/entering combat/during combat? Bluff/smoke bombs+hide?



       

          
   

As I understand it, your poisons are effectively your dailies, and they only last for the specified time (1st hit/shot, end of encounter/5 shots, or 1 hour for the out of combat usages).  If there's a particular poison you really like, you can make more than one vial of it per day, but you can only make so many vials total per day and only have so many vials at a given time.

Hey guys,

A friend of mine will be starting up a campaign (from level one onward) in a few months. I'm toying with the idea of playing an executioner, because the flavor really appeals to me, but I've been reading some comments that the class fails at being an effective striker. Is it viable to play an executioner in a four-person party where I'd be likely the only striker? What builds would you recommend? Do I need to tack on wintertouched/lasting frostcheese to make the executioner viable?

I've read the handbook, which is great, but I'd like to get an anecdotal sense of how the class rates, what to avoid, etc.

Depends on the optimisation level.  If your party are high-op and the challenges are high-op, you probably won't get there without a LOT of screwing about - if it's a fairly stadard game, they'll hit benchmarks.  And if you have an attack-granting leader, they'll really rather like you, because your MBAs are among the more damaging.

Like spaceinvader said, Executioner is nice for MBAs. It's really all they have, Striker-wise.

So... yes you really need to do things like Frostcheese to make them viable. You use Ki Focuses though, and you have a stupidly large number of ways to gain combat advantage, so you're not limited to Frost like most Martial characters. Depending on your race/multiclass/power selections you can do very well with bonus Fire, Thunder and even Lightning damage. Frostcheese is still the best option, but you're one of the few where it isn't the -only- option.

You're basically Rogue-light (half the damage, twice the guilt... okay not quite that bad). Keep in mind, though, you're the coolest out of combat killer around. Almost like you were some kind of Assassin or something. Know where your quarry for the next day is sleeping? Use your mass of invisibility spells, sneak into his house and poison his ass. Some kind of easier prey needs your skilled attention? Just execute them!

Also, do you like being invisible? Because Executioners have a lot of that. A LOT of that. Phasing? Not quite so much but absolutely available. Stealthy? Bitch you gave your soul to the Shadowfel, Scoundrel aint got **** on you.

With the right party, in the right campaign, you can have a ton of fun with the Exectutioner.  

Feb 13, 2013 -- 3:07PM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Hey guys,

A friend of mine will be starting up a campaign (from level one onward) in a few months. I'm toying with the idea of playing an executioner, because the flavor really appeals to me, but I've been reading some comments that the class fails at being an effective striker. Is it viable to play an executioner in a four-person party where I'd be likely the only striker? What builds would you recommend? Do I need to tack on wintertouched/lasting frostcheese to make the executioner viable?

I've read the handbook, which is great, but I'd like to get an anecdotal sense of how the class rates, what to avoid, etc.

They work decently as a warlock hybrid.  Finesse+curse to eld strike, plus real dailies, perma conceal.

Feb 13, 2013 -- 4:00PM, thespaceinvader wrote:

Depends on the optimisation level.  If your party are high-op and the challenges are high-op, you probably won't get there without a LOT of screwing about - if it's a fairly stadard game, they'll hit benchmarks.  And if you have an attack-granting leader, they'll really rather like you, because your MBAs are among the more damaging.

Interesting. Thanks for that. My party is mixed -- 1 high op (me), 2 moderate op, and 1 low op. The DM is going to be running a low-magic campaign with inherent bonuses, so I won't have access to as much swag as I might in a normal campaign. I'm not sure yet whether the challenges will be high op.

Inherent bonuses certainly help you, because of the multiple weapons the Executioner needs; it means you're not bound by needing Ki Focuses.

Feb 14, 2013 -- 10:42AM, Glaedren wrote:

Like spaceinvader said, Executioner is nice for MBAs. It's really all they have, Striker-wise.

So... yes you really need to do things like Frostcheese to make them viable. You use Ki Focuses though, and you have a stupidly large number of ways to gain combat advantage, so you're not limited to Frost like most Martial characters. Depending on your race/multiclass/power selections you can do very well with bonus Fire, Thunder and even Lightning damage. Frostcheese is still the best option, but you're one of the few where it isn't the -only- option.

You're basically Rogue-light (half the damage, twice the guilt... okay not quite that bad). Keep in mind, though, you're the coolest out of combat killer around. Almost like you were some kind of Assassin or something. Know where your quarry for the next day is sleeping? Use your mass of invisibility spells, sneak into his house and poison his ass. Some kind of easier prey needs your skilled attention? Just execute them!

Also, do you like being invisible? Because Executioners have a lot of that. A LOT of that. Phasing? Not quite so much but absolutely available. Stealthy? Bitch you gave your soul to the Shadowfel, Scoundrel aint got **** on you.

With the right party, in the right campaign, you can have a ton of fun with the Exectutioner.  

Thanks, this is really helpful. The out-of-combat coolness is what drew me to the class in the first place, plus the visual of garroting your victim. But it does sound like I'll need to trick the executioner out with some kind of extra damage cheese just to keep pace. The handbook is very useful, but it only contains a few generic builds, and they all rely on Frostcheese, which I'd rather avoid if possible, since I find it boring and cookie-cutter (i.e. you can just tack it on to any striker build). What combos/options would thunder, lightning, or fire involve? (well, I suppose Mark of Storm as a start for the first two)

You're playing a striker class that has no multiattack powers and no damage feat support. This means that the only ways to raise your damage are those that are available for everyone, which means that, definitionally, every single option you have is "boring and cookie-cutter".

And, unfortunately, there's not a good answer to this short of houseruling, at least now that Kulkor Arms Master is nerfed. (A Ninja with Kusarigama could make decent use of that while not abandoning its own flavorful choices.) The necessary content has not been written, so it isn't there.

If you're really in the High Op range, how would you feel about Hybriding? Because the only way you're going to be an Executioner and do god-tier damage is by stealing some Strikerness from an O-Class. Also, please tell me at least one of the moderate-Oppers is going to play a Leader, because you'll want him to play a Warlord and you're going to be his favoritist weapon.

As for the elemental, Frost really is the best for good reason. But you can take a Thunderfist Ki Focus and do very well with standard Thunder support. Fire and Lightning also have pretty good general feat and item support, but they're not as good as Cold or Thunder as a Martial character and you have to jump through some racial hoops (Tiefling and Genasi respectively). Oh and since you're starting at level one, keep Radiant in mind if any of the remainder of your party plans on eventually going Morninglord.

Since you do seem to want to continue with Executioner, gotta warn you, it's a suboptimal class that requires a lot of extra work to bring up to even 'par' and will never reach 'great'. But if you like it, don't let anyone tell you not to play it. It's very cool, and if your combat challenges will allow for it, then absolutely go for it.

That being said, you have some homework to do if you really want to build an Executioner and do well:

Dielzin's At-Will Guide (MBA is an at-will power)
Fardiz' Basic Attack Guide
If you choose an Elemental race I'd suggest reading it for some idea, though I believe most of them are fairly out of date.
Lazy-Ninja's Off-Hand and Weapon Property Guide. I -really- want to just tell you to get a Rhythm Blade Dagger, but you might want to read it to see your Offensive options.
If you're new to optimizing around weapons and elemental damage then you also need to check out Soulliard's Item Guide. Again, a bit out of date but it's a good place to start.

All of these can be found on the Collective Builds List, and some of them link to even further specialization, always check those out if they sound pertinent to you because they are often more up-to-date than the guides.

Hope this helps!
 

The problem with hybrid executioner is that you lose all the parts that make Executioner in any way interesting.

Also, none of the stuff you're describing is going to get him up to snuff past heroic.

What level are you playing at Minotaur?

Warlock|Executioner/Rogue Charge monkey works pretty well all through heroic.  Looses its luster in paragon but still isn't terrible (Cause your melee lock half is very nice).  If you are starting at 1 and going from there that would be the route I would go. 

Feb 15, 2013 -- 6:41AM, Matyr wrote:

What level are you playing at Minotaur?

We'll be starting right at level 1, and probably playing through til mid-paragon at least (though we may continue after that).

Warlock|Executioner/Rogue Charge monkey works pretty well all through heroic.  Looses its luster in paragon but still isn't terrible (Cause your melee lock half is very nice).  If you are starting at 1 and going from there that would be the route I would go. 

Interesting, thanks. I just worry about losing the fun and interest of the executioner class via hybriding.

Unfortunately, there is literally nothing you can do about that short of houseruling.

Mar 1, 2013 -- 11:32AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Feb 15, 2013 -- 6:41AM, Matyr wrote:

What level are you playing at Minotaur?

We'll be starting right at level 1, and probably playing through til mid-paragon at least (though we may continue after that).

Warlock|Executioner/Rogue Charge monkey works pretty well all through heroic.  Looses its luster in paragon but still isn't terrible (Cause your melee lock half is very nice).  If you are starting at 1 and going from there that would be the route I would go. 

Interesting, thanks. I just worry about losing the fun and interest of the executioner class via hybriding.

I guess the question is what do you think you are losing with the hybrid?  You lose the ability to kill off things at negligible health, reduced poisons but beyond that you get basically everything else.

Also /bargain-bin response on making a mechanical choice to be bad instead of refluffing. 

Mar 1, 2013 -- 12:38PM, Matyr wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />I guess the question is what do you think you are losing with the hybrid?  You lose the ability to kill off things at negligible health, reduced poisons but beyond that you get basically everything else.

Losing flavor, which is not defensible in CharOp, I know, but if I were 100% hung-up on DPR and such, I'd be playing a twin-striking ranger, no questions asked.

I'll have to investigate this further, though.

Also /bargain-bin response on making a mechanical choice to be bad instead of refluffing. 

Well, I haven't made that bad mech choice yet! I don't want a gimped character by any means. I just don't want to strip all flavor from the class either. I will definitely think about your hybrid suggestion, though...

Mar 1, 2013 -- 12:43PM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Mar 1, 2013 -- 12:38PM, Matyr wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />I guess the question is what do you think you are losing with the hybrid?  You lose the ability to kill off things at negligible health, reduced poisons but beyond that you get basically everything else.

Losing flavor, which is not defensible in CharOp, I know, but if I were 100% hung-up on DPR and such, I'd be playing a twin-striking ranger, no questions asked.

I'll have to investigate this further, though.

Also /bargain-bin response on making a mechanical choice to be bad instead of refluffing. 

Well, I haven't made that bad mech choice yet! I don't want a gimped character by any means. I just don't want to strip all flavor from the class either. I will definitely think about your hybrid suggestion, though...

In your opinion what flavor is lost with |Warlock?  Personally I think it adds something.  Executioner is shadowy magic and poisons.  Warlocks are shadowy magic and more shadowy magic.  Seems like a pretty good fit to me

As assassin who made a deal with a powerful entity to become more powerful?  Where is the flavor lost?  There is PLENTY of RP potential there.

Question for you guys, then: is a warlock/executioner hybrid viable in paragon? This campaign could very easily last into mid-paragon and I'd rather not have to rebuild or create a new character after heroic.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 3:02AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Question for you guys, then: is a warlock/executioner hybrid viable in paragon? This campaign could very easily last into mid-paragon and I'd rather not have to rebuild or create a new character after heroic.

Sure, charging works all the way up. It does fall off quite a bit in terms of optimized strikers compared to multi-attackers, but unless your group is composed entirely of high-op players, you should be fine.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 3:19AM, Alcestis wrote:

Mar 2, 2013 -- 3:02AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Question for you guys, then: is a warlock/executioner hybrid viable in paragon? This campaign could very easily last into mid-paragon and I'd rather not have to rebuild or create a new character after heroic.

Sure, charging works all the way up. It does fall off quite a bit in terms of optimized strikers compared to multi-attackers, but unless your group is composed entirely of high-op players, you should be fine.

Nah, the rest of the party is medium-op or low-op, but it will be a four-person party and this character will likely be the only striker. I just want to make sure this character is able to do his job as a striker properly.

Also, does anyone have any example builds of successful executioner/warlock hybrids? I don't want to poach an entire build, but I would appreciate a baseline from which to start building this character.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 10:42AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Also, does anyone have any example builds of successful executioner/warlock hybrids? I don't want to poach an entire build, but I would appreciate a baseline from which to start building this character.

It is a pretty simple build. Rapier, MC Rogue, charge package, take off-action powers whenever possible.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 12:42PM, Alcestis wrote:

Mar 2, 2013 -- 10:42AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Also, does anyone have any example builds of successful executioner/warlock hybrids? I don't want to poach an entire build, but I would appreciate a baseline from which to start building this character.

It is a pretty simple build. Rapier, MC Rogue, charge package, take off-action powers whenever possible.

Granted, but what pact are you using? Infernal? Are the stat bumps DEX-CON or DEX-CHA? Can you get away with playing a human? Which off-action Warlock powers are recommended?

SK
Dex/Cha

Humans are boring

E3: Delbans, E7 Touch


Just try to build it, see what works. Alcestis gave you the basics.  

Mar 2, 2013 -- 3:42PM, baldhermit wrote:

Humans are boring

Oh, thanks. I really needed your completely subjective opinion on which races are boring to play.

Just try to build it, see what works. Alcestis gave you the basics.  

I'm already building it. But "charge package + rapier + MC rogue" is fairly obvious. I'm talking about other aspects of the build.

..and I really needed a smart ass comment as a response to a stupid question from some mental teenager to start my day. Guess we both win.



Humans score at 80%+ match for all classes, any class.   

Mar 2, 2013 -- 10:42AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Also, does anyone have any example builds of successful executioner/warlock hybrids? I don't want to poach an entire build, but I would appreciate a baseline from which to start building this character.

Pick a charisma or con race, with charisma usually being better as there is more you can do with it, put a 20 in it.  Rest in dex, with the spare going to whatever.  Myself, I like revenant for the extra damage racial, it helps in heroic.  Pick a race who's feat support you like.  Sorc King pact, mindbite scorn, MC rogue, surprising charge, killing curse when you have room.  Then get a vanguard rapier and horned helm.  If you really want to get fancy add in frostcheese. 

Edit: Or use the forum search function.

For this

or this

or this

maybe this

Mar 2, 2013 -- 4:03PM, baldhermit wrote:

..and I really needed a smart ass comment as a response to a stupid question from some mental teenager to start my day. Guess we both win.

Wow, courtesy is something you apparently never learned. I never asked for your opinion of humans as a race, and if rudeness and insults are the only way you can engage, then I don't want your opinion on anything at all.

Humans score at 80%+ match for all classes, any class.   

I guess that's why so many handbooks on this same forum have them rated sky blue as a class.

Also, you said the class was boring, which is an absurd statement, as it implies that your value judgment about a class is relevant to anyone other than yourself. 80% match or not, what you find boring might be very exciting to someone else.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 11:57PM, Jugulator007 wrote:

Pick a charisma or con race, with charisma usually being better as there is more you can do with it, put a 20 in it.  Rest in dex, with the spare going to whatever.  Myself, I like revenant for the extra damage racial, it helps in heroic.  Pick a race who's feat support you like.  Sorc King pact, mindbite scorn, MC rogue, surprising charge, killing curse when you have room.  Then get a vanguard rapier and horned helm.  If you really want to get fancy add in frostcheese. 

Edit: Or use the forum search function.

For this

or this

or this

maybe this

Thanks for this. I have used the forum search function, but was getting bogged down in the various replies, and the hybrid topics didn't have sample executioner / warlock builds. I may try to go human, as the extra feat helps me out the gate and my DM is running a campaign in which the particularly weird non-human races may face social penalties when interacting with ordinary folk (though I did actually go revenant in the initial rough build that I'm working on, for the reason you mentioned).

I'll post a build when it's ready. Thanks all for your input.

Mar 3, 2013 -- 5:17AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Mar 2, 2013 -- 4:03PM, baldhermit wrote:

..and I really needed a smart ass comment as a response to a stupid question from some mental teenager to start my day. Guess we both win.

Wow, courtesy is something you apparently never learned. I never asked for your opinion of humans as a race, and if rudeness and insults are the only way you can engage, then I don't want your opinion on anything at all.

Humans score at 80%+ match for all classes, any class.   

I guess that's why so many handbooks on this same forum have them rated sky blue as a class.

Also, you said the class was boring, which is an absurd statement, as it implies that your value judgment about a class is relevant to anyone other than yourself. 80% match or not, what you find boring might be very exciting to someone else.

Oh no, the mean man called something boring!? WELL I DECLARE! Shall I fetch you your fainting couch and smelling salts?

Mar 3, 2013 -- 6:23AM, erachima wrote:

Oh no, the mean man called something boring!? WELL I DECLARE! Shall I fetch you your fainting couch and smelling salts?

Um, what? I didn't say he was mean because he found something boring. I simply didn't think it was a useful statement. You find something boring. I don't. I find something boring. You don't. Where's the common ground, and from a CharOp standpoint, how is boredom useful as a category?

The rudeness came in his response. Basic courtesy shouldn't be too much to ask, even on a message board.

Mar 3, 2013 -- 6:42AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

The rudeness came in his response. Basic courtesy shouldn't be too much to ask, even on a message board.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 3:57PM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Oh, thanks. I really needed your completely subjective opinion on which races are boring to play.

lolwut.

Calling humans boring wasn't rude. Your sarcasm-dripping reply to his comment about them being boring was rude.

You're being a whiny, hypocritical, self-righteous, double-posting nuisance. Stop it.

I think you started. Either way, expressing an opinion, on a forum, on the internet, is hardly unexpected.

 

Mar 2, 2013 -- 3:57PM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Oh, thanks. I really needed your completely subjective opinion on which races are boring to play.

That was your response when I gave you very specific guidelines on how to build this character, which is what you asked for. 



Let me quantify my dislike of humans better then. They rate as just below best for any class. That means, in my view, there is always a better race to pick for the class. In your specific case Dex/Cha races.   

Mar 3, 2013 -- 6:45AM, baldhermit wrote:

YOU asked for additional build advice, and while perhaps curt, I did give you additional advice, as in type of warlock, what abilities to pump and what two encounter powers to pick in heroic. With that, I also responded to your question about humans with an opinion.

I appreciate your build advice, but a statement like "humans are boring" is not helpful.

You were the one to get pissy first, because apparently I am supposed to help you and not express an opinion. If I then respond to your (what I perceive as) juvenile attitude, you complain about MY lack of courtesy? I suggest you reread your own post.

Again, I suggest that you look up the word 'boring'. It's not an objective category. What you basically said was, "I think humans are boring" in place of weighing in on whether the race (not class, obvs -- my keyboard mistake) is suitable, from a CharOp standpoint, for a hybrid build which frequently has two stats as co-primaries.

My opinion on them matters to me, sure, and I do not expect them to matter to you.

Evidently, but then, why even bother to tell me you find them boring? What's the point? And in your followup reply, you tried to tell me that they're suboptimal at whatever class they're assigned to. So you moved from an opinion to an unsubstantiated position on their utility, and THAT statement is very hard to defend, given that most handbooks here (including this one) rate humans as sky blue and the value of a floating stat plus extra feat plus extra at-will is very high (the latter particularly if you're playing an Essentials class and want to poach an at-will from your parent class).

What baffles me is why you are asking whether the race that gets a free choice of ability score to boost would or would not be suited for this hybrid, and why you care so much that I expressed an opinion, on a forum, on the internet.

I don't care that much. But really, I don't need to be called a mental teenager who asks stupid questions by someone I don't know. What I don't get is why you can't show basic courtesy when replying to someone, even on the internet. Why do you have to start dropping insults? I mean, seriously, who wins by that? Not you or me. If you want to have a discussion about the merits of humans as a race, I'm all for debating the issue with it, but when the insults come out, I lose interest in the discussion. Calling someone a mental teenager is itself a fairly adolescent position to take, and one I have no time for.

Mar 3, 2013 -- 6:48AM, erachima wrote:

Mar 3, 2013 -- 6:42AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

The rudeness came in his response. Basic courtesy shouldn't be too much to ask, even on a message board.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 3:57PM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Oh, thanks. I really needed your completely subjective opinion on which races are boring to play.

lolwut.

Calling humans boring wasn't rude. Your sarcasm-dripping reply to his comment about them being boring was rude.

You're being a whiny, hypocritical, self-righteous, double-posting nuisance. Stop it.

Thank you. You go on my Ignore list now.

I think erachima said it best when he explained that your first response was dripping with sarcasm.

Mar 3, 2013 -- 6:54AM, baldhermit wrote:

I think erachima said it best when he explained that your first response was dripping with sarcasm.

Your initial post was condescending and curt, which prompted my response. Having said that, I regret my initial sarcasm, because I do value your build advice, and that's what I was looking for.

On the subject of humans, the lack of an extra +2 is significant, I agree, but given that the campaign will be starting at level 1, the extra feat from being human actually helps me be more effective out of the gate. But I can see the merit in picking a non-human race, definitely.

Mar 3, 2013 -- 6:53AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Mar 3, 2013 -- 6:48AM, erachima wrote:

Mar 3, 2013 -- 6:42AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

The rudeness came in his response. Basic courtesy shouldn't be too much to ask, even on a message board.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 3:57PM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Oh, thanks. I really needed your completely subjective opinion on which races are boring to play.

lolwut.

Calling humans boring wasn't rude. Your sarcasm-dripping reply to his comment about them being boring was rude.

You're being a whiny, hypocritical, self-righteous, double-posting nuisance. Stop it.

Thank you. You go on my Ignore list now.

And you can stumble through life angry at the world, never realize your dreams, and die alone with a curse on your lips because of your inability to accept simple constructive criticism.

If you want to use this forum as a resource, I wouldn't ignore era.  He may be a little... direct... but he will berate you into building the best whatever-it-is-you-are-building.  Realize that you got butthurt at Baldie's opinion and move on.  It's cool man, not everyone here agrees with each other all the time, but at the end of the day we're all trying to play the same game.

Mar 3, 2013 -- 10:30AM, Jugulator007 wrote:

If you want to use this forum as a resource, I wouldn't ignore era.  He may be a little... direct... but he will berate you into building the best whatever-it-is-you-are-building.  Realize that you got butthurt at Baldie's opinion and move on.  It's cool man, not everyone here agrees with each other all the time, but at the end of the day we're all trying to play the same game.

This. Also you'll get even more short shrift if you keep post-spamming. If you must reply to someone that that said something to you several posts ago, just edit the next post down. Don't make a new one. A courteous rule of thumb is that your own posts should never be next to each other.

Mar 3, 2013 -- 10:30AM, Jugulator007 wrote:

If you want to use this forum as a resource, I wouldn't ignore era.  He may be a little... direct... but he will berate you into building the best whatever-it-is-you-are-building.  Realize that you got butthurt at Baldie's opinion and move on.  It's cool man, not everyone here agrees with each other all the time, but at the end of the day we're all trying to play the same game.

Like I said earlier, I regret my initial sarcasm. I get you on that front. And I have absolutely zero problem with disagreement. That's why I posted here initially, because I knew I was going to get a diverse range of opinions from different people. As for the poster you mentioned, I guess it comes down to priorities. I have no inclination to be flamed by anyone, no matter how knowledgeable he or she may be. That's just me, though.

Mar 3, 2013 -- 10:36AM, Glaedren wrote:

This. Also you'll get even more short shrift if you keep post-spamming. If you must reply to someone that that said something to you several posts ago, just edit the next post down. Don't make a new one. A courteous rule of thumb is that your own posts should never be next to each other.

Ah, thanks for that piece of advice. I typically post on message boards where there's a time limit on editing your own posts (around 5 minutes or so), so it didn't occur to me to go back and edit a post to respond to multiple topics.

Edit: Am having a bit of trouble on how to allocate points to ability scores. Is it essential to go co-primary CHA/CON-DEX for warlock/executioner hybrid? I started by going human, pumping CHA, and making DEX a secondary, but then realized that I couldn't really take Assassin dailies. So I'm going the poison swap route for now.

Mar 6, 2013 -- 5:51AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Mar 3, 2013 -- 10:30AM, Jugulator007 wrote:

If you want to use this forum as a resource, I wouldn't ignore era.  He may be a little... direct... but he will berate you into building the best whatever-it-is-you-are-building.  Realize that you got butthurt at Baldie's opinion and move on.  It's cool man, not everyone here agrees with each other all the time, but at the end of the day we're all trying to play the same game.

Like I said earlier, I regret my initial sarcasm. I get you on that front. And I have absolutely zero problem with disagreement. That's why I posted here initially, because I knew I was going to get a diverse range of opinions from different people. As for the poster you mentioned, I guess it comes down to priorities. I have no inclination to be flamed by anyone, no matter how knowledgeable he or she may be. That's just me, though.

Mar 3, 2013 -- 10:36AM, Glaedren wrote:

This. Also you'll get even more short shrift if you keep post-spamming. If you must reply to someone that that said something to you several posts ago, just edit the next post down. Don't make a new one. A courteous rule of thumb is that your own posts should never be next to each other.

Ah, thanks for that piece of advice. I typically post on message boards where there's a time limit on editing your own posts (around 5 minutes or so), so it didn't occur to me to go back and edit a post to respond to multiple topics.

Edit: Am having a bit of trouble on how to allocate points to ability scores. Is it essential to go co-primary CHA/CON-DEX for warlock/executioner hybrid? I started by going human, pumping CHA, and making DEX a secondary, but then realized that I couldn't really take Assassin dailies. So I'm going the poison swap route for now.

You want to go Cha/Dex.  Cha is far more important than Dex, so if you have to choose Cha should be "more" primary.

Mar 6, 2013 -- 7:00AM, Matyr wrote:

You want to go Cha/Dex.  Cha is far more important than Dex, so if you have to choose Cha should be "more" primary.

That's what I figured. I think I can work around the lower Dex by using poison dailies and taking powers that don't require an attack roll.

Mar 6, 2013 -- 8:34AM, weepingminotaur wrote:

Mar 6, 2013 -- 7:00AM, Matyr wrote:

You want to go Cha/Dex.  Cha is far more important than Dex, so if you have to choose Cha should be "more" primary.

That's what I figured. I think I can work around the lower Dex by using poison dailies and taking powers that don't require an attack roll.

You are only going to have 1 daily wasted by being executioner, so its generally not that big of a deal.

Also, since you are going to be melee and probably getting punched a fair amount, make sure you pick up Touch of Command as your E7. 

New dragonborn option to be dex/cha should make them viable now, right?

I was reading the handbook for the Executioner. But what strikes me is that the rapier is written as a weapon the Executioner is proficient with. I've looked through HoS, but I can't see it written anywhere. I've also checked the errata related to HoS, but there isn't anything either. Can you guys point me to where it is written? I'm currently making a character for a FR game, using a Half-Drow I've used for 3.5.

Mar 21, 2013 -- 12:11PM, XQbitor wrote:

I was reading the handbook for the Executioner. But what strikes me is that the rapier is written as a weapon the Executioner is proficient with. I've looked through HoS, but I can't see it written anywhere. I've also checked the errata related to HoS, but there isn't anything either. Can you guys point me to where it is written? I'm currently making a character for a FR game, using a Half-Drow I've used for 3.5.

Check the errata for the Player's Handbook, where the rapier was printed.  It's a military weapon now.

Ah, that's why. Thank you a million!

"Magic Ki Foci are magic for every attack you make with them. So if you crit with your High Crit weapon, empowered by a Devastating Ki Focus, then you get the extra crit dice from both the weapon property and the magic Ki Focus... 
The magical key focus doesn't replace the weapon properties, but it works on each attack as if you had enchanted the weapon."

Is this still true?  You choose which magic effects to use (the magic of your ki or the magic of your weapon), but the non-magical property like the high crit aspect would work?  I tend to think yes, since the weapon's proficiency bonus is still used, as well as every other aspect of it.

Superior implement properties only work on implement attacks. Weapon properties only work on weapon attacks. So you couldn't get both the Devastating effect and the High Crit effect at the same time (unless the power happens to have both keywords, like a Hexblade power).

May 14, 2013 -- 8:36PM, ThatWasTotallyNinja wrote:

Superior implement properties only work on implement attacks.

Hold on--what rules source says this?  The property of an accurate ki focus, for example, is "You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls made with an accurate implement."  It's not restricted to implement attacks.  What am I missing?

May 14, 2013 -- 10:33PM, CUBPHILDND wrote:

May 14, 2013 -- 8:36PM, ThatWasTotallyNinja wrote:

Superior implement properties only work on implement attacks.

Hold on--what rules source says this?  The property of an accurate ki focus, for example, is "You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls made with an accurate implement."  It's not restricted to implement attacks.  What am I missing?

It's in PHB3, where superior implements are first introduced.

"A superior implement's properties apply only to attacks made with the implement. They affect only implement powers, even if an implement can be used to make weapon attacks." (PHB3 195)

May 14, 2013 -- 10:46PM, ThatWasTotallyNinja wrote:

May 14, 2013 -- 10:33PM, CUBPHILDND wrote:

May 14, 2013 -- 8:36PM, ThatWasTotallyNinja wrote:

Superior implement properties only work on implement attacks.

Hold on--what rules source says this?  The property of an accurate ki focus, for example, is "You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls made with an accurate implement."  It's not restricted to implement attacks.  What am I missing?

It's in PHB3, where superior implements are first introduced.

"A superior implement's properties apply only to attacks made with the implement. They affect only implement powers, even if an implement can be used to make weapon attacks." (PHB3 195)

Dangit!  And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids.

I've been trying to wrap my head around the basic tactical options a low-level ninja executioner has at their disposal for a while now, and there's a few mechanics that I'm not sure I understand fully.  I'm planning on playing a new character in a relatively novice to mid-level game soon and I don't want to show up with a somewhat customized character and then be making idiotic rules mistakes left and right.

For starters, I picked up Sneak of Shadows immediately and then realized that I would (presumably) have to use it on the off-hand half of the kusarigama unless I brought a rapier with me (which, hilariously, you cannot seem to actually afford at first level unless you drop the kusarigami or cut out some other basic gear).  How does the sneak attack interact with Whirling Kusarigama?  Can I trigger it with the secondary attack since that technically uses the light blade portion?  Also, if I use Sneak Attack can I also add the attack finese d8 and/or pop Assassin's Strike; in other words, am I allowed to use as many "extra damage" powers as I want on any given attack as long as they are no/free action?  It would seem that you can at least use attack finesse on the secondary attack (as that is a damage roll) regardless of any other additional powers/"extra damage" that you trigger.  I'm assuming that I'm not understanding a rule somewhere preventing this kind of stacking, as this would seem to give the executioner a pretty darn solid alpha strike at low heroic.

I also read in another thread that applying CCBJ to the kusarigama is a fairly standard tactic as it would apply on both attacks in WKG.  Is this true, or does each half of a double weapon count as seperate "weapons" for the purposes of a poison/oil?  And, while we're on the topic, is it more worthwhile to do this when we only have 1 poison vial/rest instead of using that poison for shuriken?  The general consensus in this handbook and thread is that Poisonous Shuriken is the primary reason you'd want to play a ninja in the first place, so it seems odd that you'd want to forgo that power entirely until you can get two vials at level five.

And some more questions about Poisonous Shuriken: if it's used as a multi-target attack, does it use two pieces of unpoisoned and one piece of poisoned ammunition, or just one piece of ammo that somehow ninjabounces to all three targets?  I'm guessing the former, but I thought I'd ask.  Also, is this a 1[W] per target, or 1[W] divided among three targets (and the same question again in regards to weapon finesse; one target, all three, split among three, etc.).

I apologize for all the questions, as I'm sure most if not all are pretty dumb.  I want to really nail down the specifics of how this character would actually work as the DM may or may not have any familiarity with it, and it seems the devil is in the details with this one.