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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 5:56AM #11
wrecan
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Date Joined: Jun 23, 2005
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I liked the ideas, though I wish these were rituals or martial practices, instead of just freebies.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 6:49AM #12
MrMyth
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 1,297
The Good:

-Reminding players to think outside the box is a good thing. I like the concept of this article.

-Some of these are quite creative and interesting approaches, allowing for interesting story development.

The Bad:

Ok, let's start with the core problems with the article itself - too open-ended, not enough guidance.

-Number one, you absolutely need to have a much bigger "AT DM DISCRETION" tag on this article. As others have noted, otherwise we'll have people trying this stuff out in LFR and elsewhere with the absolute expectation that they can do any or all of this, cause its "in the rules".

-Number two, I dislike how little guidance is given on what characters some of these punishments are appropriate for. You don't need to put in absolute requirements... but maybe just have some of these tagged as 'Paragon' or 'Epic' punishments, so every 1st level wizard doesn't think they can permanently polymorph defeated foes into their pet mice? Sure, a DM can let that happen if they want to - but again, these article is positively irresponsible in how it sets up player's expectations to be shattered. Add some tier suggestions, maybe tag some of them as appropriate for arcane/primal casters, etc - some of that is covered in the flavor text, but not enough.

-Number three, some of these results are way too rigid in the text. The author here is doing too much of sharing his own stories, and not giving enough room for players and DMs to invent their own. Somewhat ironic in such an imagination-driven article. Again, you're setting up players for disappointment - let's take the blindness condition. That's a powerful and potent fate to place upon someone. And when the DM sees a good opportunity for the blind villain to still work at schemes behind the scenes, the player will be pissed, pointing to this article and how it claims "He lives out the rest of his days sightlessly, begging at street corners and eating filth to survive."

Give suggestions, not absolutes. Suggest possible outcomes of such fates and story paths for the DM to take with it. Putting in these absolutes, especially ones so extreme, is going to leave many players frustrated with the disconnect between how this article portrays things, and how their DM actually handles things.

The Ugly

-Hey, look, another article without any mechanical player content. There seems some confusion over whether this is Dungeon or Dragon, so I'll give it a bit of a pass... but it also seems aimed mroe at players than DMs, so it seems to have been designed as a Dragon article, and that's rather frustrating. Look, having a couple articles each month focused at pure fluff or gaming advice is all well and good. Having an entire month of such articles is really not cool. And, honestly, if this was actually written as a DM article instead of a player article, I think that would have helped avoid most of the basic problems above.

-Torture. Some of these are truly disturbing fates. I don't get easily discomforted, but reading this articles was a genuinely unpleasant experience at times. Now, that's fair, and there is room for games that allow these sorts of things - but, again, give some guidance! Some of these should be noted as evil acts, or at least some hint given to players that arranging the eternal torture of someone is not a good act. And the description and themes behind some of these, such as Blindness, Crippled, Isolated, Malicious Polymorph... I can see these stirring up all the wrong sorts of ideas in some player's minds. It can be ok in some campaigns, but tossing this out willy-nilly is, again, completely irresponsible of the author and Dragon magazine.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 6:50AM #13
Artifact
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I think the article is a great springboard for ideas.  Not the popular opinion apparently but I'm getting more and more used to the fact that I'm a bit 'out of touch' with the majority when it comes to this sorta thing.

I'm talking about things like Show
I like print but digital is the thing now days; anti-heroes (in D&D) aren't *cool* (since when? ); I enjoy fluff most but crunch is apparently where it be; that sorta thing.  I'm just not with it anymore.  Got it .


That all aside, yes, I enjoy the article and hope to see more like it in the future.  I will say this though, it should be an Unearthed Arcana article.

/\ Art



/\ Art
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 8:45AM #14
Drax_Hoak
Date Joined: Sep 8, 2004
Posts: 112
This new way more fluff than crunch direction that the Dungeon/Dragon editors are taking may be a good direction for the game to help slow bloat (there's no preventing it entirely), but it's a very, very poor method of separating me from my cash.

It also didn't help that in addition to not having any crunch, this article was kind of mean-spirited and horrid. Nice way to encourage PCs not to kill every villain, by encouraging them to do even worse.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 9:04AM #15
Nai_Calus
Date Joined: Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 1,603

This is kind of completely horrifying and awful.


Some of this stuff is the kind of thing the bad guy does to random townspeople in bad fantasy novels to show how eeeeevil and bad he is. I mean, I know the whole dark brooding morally grey anti-hero thing is these days, but some of this stuff goes way past that.


Ew. This is never getting used in any game I run, that's for sure. I don't run games catering to torture-happy anti-heroes one step away from being villains themselves. :P


This is also kind of really insulting to disabled people. I mean, yes, D&D is pseudo-medieval, but wtf. Apparently blind people are incapable of doing anything but eating filth or something, etc.

It's spelled Corellon Larethian, not Correlon, Correllon, Correlllon, Corellion, Correlian or any other way of getting it wrong.
I'm a total grognard and I still play 4E.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 9:07AM #16
Kletian999
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Date Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Posts: 2,044
General displeasure with the article, in the same vein as the above posters. 
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 9:48AM #17
captainspud
Date Joined: Sep 14, 2009
Posts: 170
Strangely, the article has moved on the calendar from today to next Wednesday, but remains on the front page.

And add me to the chorus of "these are not things to recommend to a heroic party".
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 9:50AM #18
Aegeri
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Date Joined: Apr 21, 2001
Posts: 2,099
What is this complete crap? What happened to Totems of the Far Realm - which was supposed to be delayed until midday and is now completely gone from the calendar. This article was not interesting, worthwhile or offered something that should be in Dragon whatsoever. It's also yet another completely devoid of content/crunch article.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 10:02AM #19
Natas665
Date Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Posts: 1
Personally, I though the article was a good start, but the there could have been more torture.  Some of the suggestions were really creative... they really got my juices flowing.  My 3:00 apointment is in for a real treat today!  I especially appreciate the fact that it was posted in the so-called season of peace and good-will!

I can see some of this getting used in my regular Saturday game with Adolf, Atilla, Nixon, and Liz Bathory, but we'll have to dial the evil up just a smidge.


Keep this kind of thing coming, it's exactly what D&D needs!  It's been way too long since I've gotten to take credit for D&D... I miss the old days.
Pleased to meet you... hope you guessed my name.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2010 - 10:12AM #20
Aegeri
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Date Joined: Apr 21, 2001
Posts: 2,099
This is a new low, even by Dragon's standards.
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