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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2010 - 10:59AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Feb 22, 2005
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Actually, I think it's more the idea that WotC seems to be taking a new direction and leaving the old one behind. Removing? No. But it does look like they're tying up loose ends to encompass the new path (aka, swapping powers for class features). By doing so, and continually previewing Essentials-type materials, they seem to show that this choice is taking over.
That, and the fact that "you're getting the love and we're not" stings a bit. I wouldn't call that a primary cause of our concern, though.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2010 - 1:19PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2007
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Apologists are just tiresome. If WotC sold a box full of actual ,with the DnD logo on it, they would still call it the best product WotC produced or manage to find excuses or uses for it. I think some of them hope to become VCL, ORCs, become playtesters or even get hired at WotC. 
They even have a thread in General where they shout how great they are.
People who claim that their opinions are empirical fact, and can't accept that others might love what they don't, are just tiresome.
Sounds like an opinion stated as empirical fact.
And who said I didn't like what others do? I just think that calling people whinners for a legitimate opinion is tiresome. WotC could have made an awesome product by splitting the apple in two and creating new classes with the shadow power source and by creating new builts for old classes. But this is just a tautology. WotC prefere to loose customers and some people like to stick close to WotC. They can't be wrong, since this is the direction WotC is taking for the game.
Some dude once said: "If WotC would put crap in boxes with the DnD logo on them, some people would still call it the best product WotC has made."
Resident Pervert.
Don't flame me for my writen errors, English is my second language.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2010 - 2:44PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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@goldomark. So why can't HoS be awesome again? And where did it say there weren't new classes? The book isn't released it is to early to say if it is bad or good. (Though the preview many folks didn't like, a couple of paragraphs isn't enough to judge a couple hundred pages on.)
Characters currently:
Abscense makes the heart grow fonder but the characters disappear.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2010 - 4:13PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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Sounds like an opinion stated as empirical fact.
No, it sounds more like a parody of your original statement, in which I note that your actions are considered tiresome by quite a few of us as well.
And who said I didn't like what others do? I just think that calling people whinners for a legitimate opinion is tiresome. WotC could have made an awesome product by splitting the apple in two and creating new classes with the shadow power source and by creating new builts for old classes. But this is just a tautology. WotC prefere to loose customers and some people like to stick close to WotC. They can't be wrong, since this is the direction WotC is taking for the game.
WotC is already making an awesome product. It just happens to not be the product you want. Which doesn't mean it is a bad business decision. Whether it is a good business decision or a bad one remains to be seen. And those of us that like the concept of the product do not like it because we believe that WotC can't be wrong, but rather because we like the concept of the product. Your conclusion is a non sequitur. In fact, it is one that is objectively provable as false. I am a huge defender of the Heroes of Shadow book. I love the concept. But I have pages and pages of posts in which I complain about the way Gamma World includes a CCG element to its rules. I think WotC did "wrong" (which in this case doesn't equate to WotC actually doing wrong, but rather WotC releasing a product I don't like). I am boycotting Gamma World as a result.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2010 - 4:52PM
#35
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I've complained about no Mac support forever. Now I've got Mac support.
WotC isn't perfect in my PoV. There are many problems I would say. But I enjoy the books, and I'm buying them.
I'm not saying don't complain. I'm saying don't expect your complaining to DO anything – that's something only your dollar or boycott can do, or if WotC actually asks about it.
And wait until the product comes out before making that judgement. I may still think the product isn't a very good book. But from what I've seen, I think it will be good. From what you've seen, it looks like crap. But regardless, we've seen only a tiny bit. You need to learn patience, and wait to see what is actually in the book, before you go proclaiming it the best thing ever or the worst book in the history of D&D and Roleplaying. Otherwise, you're just setting yourself up for dissapointment – by either expecting too much of it, or by deciding it's evil before learning what's in it, and feeling bad about it regardless of the quality of the contents once they're fully revealed.
A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2010 - 5:38PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2007
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@goldomark. So why can't HoS be awesome again? And where did it say there weren't new classes? The book isn't released it is to early to say if it is bad or good. (Though the preview many folks didn't like, a couple of paragraphs isn't enough to judge a couple hundred pages on.)
Wanna bet? No offence, but it sounds like naive optimism or bad faith just to scorn people who are disappointed.
Sounds like an opinion stated as empirical fact.
No, it sounds more like a parody of your original statement, in which I note that your actions are considered tiresome by quite a few of us as well.
So witty to copy me. I rarely post in these parts. You can always press ignore. I won't stop saying what I think. If it bothers a bunch of self-congradulating apologists, then all the better.
And who said I didn't like what others do? I just think that calling people whinners for a legitimate opinion is tiresome. WotC could have made an awesome product by splitting the apple in two and creating new classes with the shadow power source and by creating new builts for old classes. But this is just a tautology. WotC prefere to loose customers and some people like to stick close to WotC. They can't be wrong, since this is the direction WotC is taking for the game.
WotC is already making an awesome product.
How do you know? It is not even out. I can copy stuff too. So easy.
It just happens to not be the product you want.
Nope. I want it. I just wanted a bit more. Some people wanted alot more. I feel for them. I do not call them whinners. I am not a blind apologist.
Which doesn't mean it is a bad business decision.
Of course not. Bravo for stating the obvious. +1 point for you... Or is it -1?
Whether it is a good business decision or a bad one remains to be seen.
Wow, you are on fire.
And those of us that like the concept of the product do not like it because we believe that WotC can't be wrong, but rather because we like the concept of the product.
Again who said I didn't like it? But can you explain to me what is the concept of this product that hasn't came out yet? I just want to hear it from a guy who already likes it. Cause all I have very little info on the product.
Your conclusion is a non sequitur.
You misunderstood me. Now I am stating the obvious. lol!
In fact, it is one that is objectively provable as false.
/Gasp
Can you demonstrate this? Pretty please. I love pie charts.
I am a huge defender of the Heroes of Shadow book.
You don't say. But you haven't seen it yet. How can you be sure?
Who said I didn't? I think alot of people who hate what is coming also love the concept. What should be said is that they hate the preview. And you love the preview. But can you really love a product without seeing it?
After all, alot of apologists say that people just hate without seeing the product. Sounds to me like you are guilty of doing what you accuse people of doing. That is loving a product before it comes out. Why would loving be more legitimate then hating? Because apologists are right?
But I have pages and pages of posts in which I complain about the way Gamma World includes a CCG element to its rules.
Wow.
I think WotC did "wrong" (which in this case doesn't equate to WotC actually doing wrong, but rather WotC releasing a product I don't like). I am boycotting Gamma World as a result.
Good for you. It seems that alot of people will do the same with shadow. Maybe I am wrong. We shall see. Well not really. WotC doesn't release sells figures. We will just be left with people congradulating themselves.
Some dude once said: "If WotC would put crap in boxes with the DnD logo on them, some people would still call it the best product WotC has made."
Resident Pervert.
Don't flame me for my writen errors, English is my second language.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2010 - 5:44PM
#37
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It's your own fault if you're the own projecting some result in the book.
Some people prefer to see what's ACTUALLY in the book before judging it.
A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2010 - 5:47PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2007
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I've complained about no Mac support forever. Now I've got Mac support.
You are a good Mac soldier.
WotC isn't perfect in my PoV. There are many problems I would say. But I enjoy the books, and I'm buying them.
Good for you. Who said I didn't? All I am doing is saying that people who do not like the preview have the right to say they do not like what they are saying. Like people who loved the preview ahve a right to say that WotC is great!
I'm not saying don't complain. I'm saying don't expect your complaining to DO anything – that's something only your dollar or boycott can do, or if WotC actually asks about it.
I just wanted a few classes. I won't buy the book. But I can explain here why I won't buy it. The questionnaire for the DDI, maybe it was done because they read the forums. I do not think that asking for a few classes is that irrational. Is it?
And wait until the product comes out before making that judgement. I may still think the product isn't a very good book. But from what I've seen, I think it will be good.
That is your opinion. Why is it better then the opinion of people who didn't like what they have seen so far? You are already judging without seeing the final product. You are doing what you accused the people who are disappointed of doing.
From what you've seen, it looks like crap.
I wouldn't say that.
But regardless, we've seen only a tiny bit.
Saying the obvious.
You need to learn patience, and wait to see what is actually in the book, before you go proclaiming it the best thing ever or the worst book in the history of D&D and Roleplaying.
I have said neither.
Otherwise, you're just setting yourself up for dissapointment – by either expecting too much of it, or by deciding it's evil before learning what's in it, and feeling bad about it regardless of the quality of the contents once they're fully revealed.
Wise words. Say them to people who just already love the product without seeing it. It will restore some balance to the debate.
Some dude once said: "If WotC would put crap in boxes with the DnD logo on them, some people would still call it the best product WotC has made."
Resident Pervert.
Don't flame me for my writen errors, English is my second language.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2010 - 5:49PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2007
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It's your own fault if you're the own projecting some result in the book.
Some people prefer to see what's ACTUALLY in the book before judging it.
What do it project exactly? Is it worse then what the people who already love it say?
And where did I screw up my quote?
Some dude once said: "If WotC would put crap in boxes with the DnD logo on them, some people would still call it the best product WotC has made."
Resident Pervert.
Don't flame me for my writen errors, English is my second language.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2010 - 6:02PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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Try again goldomark. I didn't say I love the product. I say I love its concept (as previewed). I have no idea whether I will or will not like the book as of yet. I need to buy it and read it first.
Also, pardon me for reading lines such as "it could have been an awesome product" and coming to the conclusion that you thus do not find (what you have seen of) it to be great. If you do like the concept of the product (as previewed), you were not very clear.
Me, I love what I have seen of the product in its preview. It seems to be exactly what I was hoping for. Though, I won't know for sure until I own it.
And that seems to be about all there is to say to you goldomark... but please, feel free to keep ranting if it makes you feel better.
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