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2 years ago ::
Dec 13, 2010 - 7:04PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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I have looked at the preview of the Heroes of Shadow, read it over and over. I like the section on Shadow Magic, but then we are shown three "essential" like builds that ignore the previous section completely.
I maintain that this product is the death of the Shadow Power Source. The only class with the Shadow Power Source is the Original Assassin (The class, not the various PP's in the books) in Dragon. It is sad that this power source is regulared to Keyword Status.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
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Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
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They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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2 years ago ::
Dec 13, 2010 - 7:57PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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I think you meant relegated.
Which it may in fact be. I am not entirely hopeful, but we'll have to see.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
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You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2010 - 2:34AM
#3
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While I too was bitterly disappointed with the preview of HoS, the more I think about it, the more it makes a strange kind of sense for the shadow power source to work as a sort of 'adjunct' to other power sources. The Shadowfell is a dark reflection of the world: its 'shadow'. When a character accesses the power of Shadow, what he or she is actually doing is tapping into his or her own 'shadow-self', the dark reflection of his or her own soul. But you need to have some power of your own to start with, in order to have any 'shadow power' to access. So, a paladin devoted in body and soul to a particular virtue finds in a moment of desperation that she can tap into another, perhaps even more potent, source of power: her virtue's 'dark side'. She goes beyond sacrificing her life for her friends and instead sacrifices her soul so that she might continue to live and protect them. She's still a paladin, but her power now draws both from the divine power of her virtue and from the shadowy power of her virtue's 'dark side'. A wizard studying forbidden tomes at the dead of night in a locked vault beneath his academy's library discovers a way to harness the innate power of a part of his own soul he had not realised even existed: a dark reflection of himself that dwells on the other side of Death's veil. His spells are still fundamentally arcane, harnessing the magic that permeates the planes, but now there's something else feeding power into them too: a dark thread that links his soul to the Shadowfell. A shaman's spirit companion is devoured by a death giant, its primal essence apparently lost forever. But then, a year and a day later, the spirit returns, corrupted by its sojourn beyond the borders of life and death. Cut off from the natural cycle, it instead taps into the endless, desperate, ever-tightening gyre of hopelessness, dissolution and ruin that is the Shadowfell. The shaman's powers are still primal, but are now tainted by shadow. Where his touch once brought boundless life, in harmony with the natural world, it now requires blood sacrifices to the ever-hungry spirit. Don't get me wrong. I want to see some pure shadow classes as well, to represent those characters (such as shadow-dancers) who tap into the power of Shadow without using another power source as an intermediary. But I don't think the idea of dual-source shadow builds is, in itself, a bad concept. ETA: It occurs to me that, Shadow being what it is, being 'dead' is not necessarily a handicap... 
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2010 - 4:47AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2009
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I'm more worried about how the Necromancer will be handled. If it's a mage build, I can't envision it having any of the crazy class features that a Necromancer should have, like the at-will ability to summon undead or some form of life drain. Rather, from the preview, it looks like the Necromanccer mage build (or whatever it's called) will chiefly consist of "Your necrotic attacks ignore necrotic resistance" and another small benefit. Summons seem to be weak daily powers. The preview makes me think of a Shaman who could only summon a spirit companion via dailies.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2010 - 7:26AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2004
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I'm not unhappy with shadow magic (nethermancy?) being a branch of arcane magic but I do think the necromancer was well suited to a shadow-sourced class.
I do think that they should have a shadow-sourced class other than the assassin or alternatively release a new assassin build that has more of a magey feel to it, call it the shadowcaster, make it a controller class, and give it riders on its powers that increase the number of targets, distance of teleports etc and some wizardy feats. After all, the assassin class is just a placeholder name. We have the thief build for the rogue as well as thief feat power swaps for all classes. The name means little, it's the powers that define the class.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2010 - 10:34AM
#6
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I'm more worried about how the Necromancer will be handled. If it's a mage build, I can't envision it having any of the crazy class features that a Necromancer should have, like the at-will ability to summon undead or some form of life drain. Rather, from the preview, it looks like the Necromanccer mage build (or whatever it's called) will chiefly consist of "Your necrotic attacks ignore necrotic resistance" and another small benefit. Summons seem to be weak daily powers. The preview makes me think of a Shaman who could only summon a spirit companion via dailies.
I think the daily in the preview may have been a class feature like the warlock's summon rather than a selectable daily based on the fact that it requires a specific school of magic and because the summon is persistent. However we do not know what the at-wills, encounter, and daily powers look like. At-wills could be attacks that use corpses as a primary target to deliver an attack, raise (minor action at-will attack for the raise and a standard for the corpse's attack?) corpses with 1 hit point in order to deliver a melee basic attack. Encounters could be sustain minor as long as the corpse doesn't have the negative hitpoints to destroy it's body, and average dailies might either be persistant, have instinctive effects, summon multiples, or/and have opportunity actions in order to keep you guarded or have the mob that you so much desire. Honestly I only judge a class as something I do or do not want to play based on what I can see it do 1.) every round 2.) every encounter.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2010 - 12:47PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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While I don't have a problem with the Necromancer being a Mage build... per se. Part of me would like to have seen a cleric build for it.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2010 - 1:05PM
#8
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While I don't have a problem with the Necromancer being a Mage build... per se. Part of me would like to have seen a cleric build for it.
We haven't seen what the cleric build will be. Undeath domain and Death domain? Maybe a Subclass for cleric with darker powers- shadow or infernal
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2010 - 1:06PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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While I don't have a problem with the Necromancer being a Mage build... per se. Part of me would like to have seen a cleric build for it.
We haven't seen what the cleric build will be. Undeath domain and Death domain? Maybe a Subclass for cleric with darker powers- shadow or infernal
If there is a cleric build. I don't remember them mentioning one in HoS.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2010 - 1:33PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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We saw a preview for a vecna cleric's class ability that dealt with commanding undead (instead of turning undead). I think we are going to be seeing a "necromancer cleric" build in the near future as well.
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