Community

Dec 15, 2010 -- 8:01PM, Cyber-Dave wrote:

 
And yeah my definition of control includes close range control and the other ranged control.

 
 But, on the second part, I should note that the hunter has both.

Actually at that point I was agreeing with Polaris that the Fighter given the right build was indeed a potential example of close range control (and some other defenders maybe) \ the hunters control being mostly ranged wouldnt invalidate him as controller\ 

Dec 15, 2010 -- 2:10PM, Cyber-Dave wrote:

Yes, they are very different. The game as a whole uses very different fluff. But it is important to note, that within the context of FF, all of the mages are considered to be archanists. Each color of magic is considered to be a school in which one particular mage specializes. The fact that each school leads to a very different type of mage is fairly irrelevant to that point. It is an issue of mechanics and not fluff. It does not indicate that their has been a cultural shift away from the notion of necromancers being a form of archanist.

Not really.   FF1-3 very basically rips of the DnD magic system, thus black/white mapping to arcane and divine.  After that it became unique to it's own.

In FFIV, black/white magic is certainly the subject of study, training, and memory: but summon spirits are pacts of friendship and perhaps summoner blood heritage.

FFV, you learn spells from the spirits of the great mages held in the crystals.  Whether they studied or not is unspecified.

In FFVI,  Terra knows magic because of her heritage and Celes knows magic because of being fused with Magacite artificially.  Besides Strago, who learns his magic from being hurt, him oddly being the most magelike, the rest of the spells are from synchronizing with an esper spirit.  There's no studying of magic in that game.

FFVII all spells are stored in Materia. FFVIII spells are "drawn" from the land and enemies and consumed.  FFIX the black mages are bioweapons made from congealed souls prevented from reincarnating (sounds like shadow to me actually), summons are like FFIV, and white magic is never explained (spells and abilities are learned through wearing equipment).

FFX is about the same place FFIV is, except the sphere grid eventually allows others to learn Lulu's black/white magic and Yuna's summons.  Tidus's time magic is not academic in fluff though.

Dec 15, 2010 -- 8:07PM, Cyber-Dave wrote:

Dec 15, 2010 -- 6:20PM, Kalnaur wrote:

For me and some others, the only thing that makes D&D what it is is 4th edtion D&D, and the loose understanding that previous iterations contained classes, monsters and campaign worlds similar to those of this edition.

But you are not the only person playing D&D. Indeed, it sounds like you are not even one of the people playing the game for the longest duration of time. You should not assume that just because you entered into the game during this edition's lifespan that the game should completely divorce itself from the expectations created by its past. Those might not be expectations that you personally care about. But the game bears a particular brand name, and for those of us who have been playing this game for 20 odd years (actually, just under in my case) do have expectations that we want met by a game that bears this brand name. Which isn't to say that I think every sacred cow needs to be kept around. But, put plain and simply, 4e started to stray a little too far from its roots. It is nice to see Essentials (and now HoS) bringing it back around again.

Dec 15, 2010 -- 6:20PM, Kalnaur wrote:

The again, you and I seem to be representative of the split (in some instances more like a gaping maw) within the fan community of D&D.  At least on our end, I can be happy with them giving you what you want as long as they do not ignore me (and it at least seems vice versa).

Indeed, we do. And like I said, if they release a necromancer stand alone class in the future I won't bat an eyelash. I will have my necromancer mage build, and I will be happy. I don't mind others getting their chance to play the sort of class they want as well. I just don't understand your desire, because I don't see anything about your desire which the current set up cannot already meet.

I did not mean to sound like I was the only one playing it, just that for those us us who are extremely new to D&D, the games history is less important, and our expectations are based only on this edition's ideas (though some of us know a mild amount about the older editions).

Also, the current set-up does not currently meet what I want.  From the current preview of what is coming, there is no guarantee that I could get what I want.  I would detail a more exact picture of what I want, but I think it's just good enough for me that you know that I want what I want (instead of wanting something but not being sure what it is).