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3 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2010 - 1:49PM #11
Salla
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 23,557
What are the 'stupid rules about healing word' referenced?
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2010 - 2:13PM #12
alien270
Date Joined: Dec 7, 2008
Posts: 2,038

Dec 3, 2010 -- 1:49PM, Salla wrote:

What are the 'stupid rules about healing word' referenced?



I'm assuming the errata that removed the "Divine" keyword?

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2010 - 5:54PM #13
Auspex7
Date Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Posts: 2,498
Notes, comments, critiques, etc:

1. Thread title obviously caught my eye right away, and made me chuckle. Very clever name. Talking to RuinsFate in IRC about that right now, actually.

2. At first glance, I thought it was melee-focused (melee At-Will + melee/range flexible At-Will), and was a little down on the AC. I also thought it might be a little light on healing. In fact, if it had been any number of other people, rather than a person who I view as one of two posters I know of (hi, Gelatinous!) who like Clerics even more than I do, then I'd have assumed it was light on healing. Upon closer inspection, of course, I saw that it is actually a melee/range flexible build, with a lot of ranged powers, and that it adds a slew of alternatives to its two 'words', as well as having a chance to recycle a 'word'. I think this has more to do with the write-up, than anything. You do a great job of explaining why you picked each thing, but it would help those of us who aren't very smart if you would say, "at level 10, this is how many heals you have per encounter, on average, and these are your options"-- and write a little heal round-up, etc. As an example... people who give it a quick look are probably going to miss Healer's Mercy arriving via a Feat at L10, the fact that you already have 2 1/day heals by L10, and the fact that Energy Conversion basically serves as an early heal in each enc.

3. Once I had taken a hard look at it, I saw how well-rounded it really is. In play, I see the default playstyle having it hover 2-5 squares away from the frontline, where it is within 1 move action, and is able to quickly move to any spot where it needs/wants to be in order to grant saves, hand out Magic Weapon buffs, etc. From there, it is easily able to set up its "allies within X squares" powers, remain safe from enemy Brutes, and still be able to make decisions with regard to what it wants to do on a turn-by-turn basis. This is an ideal range for a Leader to operate in, and the power selection here really supports it.

4. The 'total package' is pretty awesome. Strong personal init, so it gets extra value out of its control options... very strong save-granting ability... enough Nova to put a huge hole in a key bad guy (or make a hole out of it!)... strong healing line-up, and great surge-efficiency... very strong NADs, and solid AC for the operating range... the powers are a grab-bag, and provide a nice range of options at the table.

5. This is something I always key in on-- At-Wills. When this build runs out of 'cool stuff', it can still grant saves at-will, and has Magic Weapon. That's definitely awesome.


All in all, I really like it.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2010 - 9:12PM #14
Zathris
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2009
Posts: 4,343
I've got a near identical character at level 10, the main difference being that I haven't added HotFL powers.  That being said, in actual play I wouldn't be taking Drow Long Knife so early, nor Superior Implement so late.  The build also seems very Healing light in Heroic and mid-Paragon especially, unless I'm missing something this is the breakdown:
1: 2 Encounter Heals
2-7: 2 Encounter, 1 Daily
8-9: 2 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 1 Daily
10: 2 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 1 Daily, 1 Daily AoE
11-20: 2(3)+1 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 1 Daily, 1 Daily AoE
21-26: 2(4)+1 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 1 Daily, 1 Daily AoE
27-28: 3(5)+1 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 1 Daily, 1 Daily AoE
29-30: 3(5)+1 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 4(5) Daily, 2 Daily AoE

Of course, you can simply drop Hybrid Talent - Healer's Mercy to level 4 and basically eliminate the Heroic gap, but in Paragon when you only have 2 actual encounter heals (my problem with Resistive's proactive healing you can't bring someone up from unconscious with it, and you only have a 40% chance of it helping to prevent someone from going down).  Unless you're playing high-optimization and can kill every NPC by round 4, this puts you at severe risk if you don't crit.

As nice as Energy Conversion is, it just doesn't have the scaling needed in Paragon, and Resurgent Strength doesn't stack with Magic Weapon, I'd prefer Restorative Infusion and either Stream of Life or Spirit of Healing for 2nd and 6th.

From personal experience, Healing Figurine is utterly amazing since it gives 3 people Surgeless Healing and a Save, and your Word/Mercy targets (or people who 2nd wind) next to it add your Wisdom mod again.  The effectively free saves have enabled me to Magic Weapon instead of Sacred Flame, which is really the only reason I'd choose this over Battle Surge.  Though Battle Surge does let you choose Vorpal Weapon at 16th (every table I'm at has some multi-attacking striker, be it an Avenger, Ranger, or a Blaster).  So for me, it's really a case of taking the Figurine until 16th and retrain to Battle Surge.  I'm also not a fan of 1 round defense boosts like Iron Hide, Mileage and parties may vary of course.

I would strongly consider taking Remorse at 13th, it does everything you could want from a power in this build except damage.  Multi-target, vs Will for Accuracy, Enemies Only (kinda), Dazes for control, Vulnerable 10 for enabling, and Allies can spend a surge.

When you mention 6 Encounter Heals, are you referring to the fact that both "Words" have 2 targets, or am I missing something.  Right now I see Healing Word, Resistive Formula, Healer's Mercy, and then you pick up a 4th at 27th with Healers Reproof.

Overall I like the build, I'm just concerned about that Paragon healing.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating.  Actually, devastating is too light a word.  Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25
Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul;
Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind;
Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire;
The MECH warrior reaches perfection.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2010 - 11:57PM #15
Nausicaa
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 3,101
Thank to everyone for the feedback and compliments. I'll try to reply in chronological order

@Lunattic: I've considered Moment of Glory, and i've found that Punishing Eye is an overall superior choice, if different. The fact is that this build is versatile at the point you can change powers without problems. Overall, though, i built it primarly as an offensive leader and damage buffer... punishing eye is a staple, basically. I have considered also that feat, but i was a little tight, expecially in the heroic tier.

@Alien: ty alien ^^ unfortunately i don't know what character you are talking about, but i would be glad if you could explain better

@Pazu: ty ^^

@Salla: in HotFL healing word hasn't the Divine Keyword. We get Healer's Lore for free, but it's not that useful unless you put that divine keyword again in it. Works for Healer's Mercy, though

@Auspy: ^^ I was waiting for your comment and i'm quite embarassed about it... Didn't think the reply could be so positive and i'm very happy. I'll write up a per-level summary surely. Probably something can be addressed and will be changed but i think it's normal. Yes, this is a "pseudo-ranged" build, a bit like the ranged cleric. Its decent speed and the movement enabling powers (living gate, for example) actually helps it land those powers and Winds of Fury actually is very synergic with many powers.

Imagine an encounter power "nova" with an AP... level 27+

Magic Weapon minor
Winds of Fury
Move
AP with BA tied (or Arcane at will, which is very strong if you have a warlock or a sorcerer, or whatever) (regain Winds of Fury)
Healer's Reproof

This is basically a super-super easy combo: Aoe stunning + healing + movement + MBA granting + extra damage from magic weapon. Probably there are better combos, but that one came into my mind immediately.

@Zathris: yeah, i had the same feeling. But from early paragon you get enhanced resistive formula which acts as double cushion. Since you can use resistive formula early in the encounter and then progress to heal with Healing Word or Healer's Mercy. I don't see this build particularly light on healing, frankly.
I've considered Remorse, but i may had to change the entire encounter power progression, since, if i take a cleric power at level 13, i'd only have cleric power (not legal).
I don't consider Energy Conversion a badly scaling power. I've used for a lot of time reverent mettle and this power is strictly superior. About the Figurine... Again, probably is better... battle surge gives that extra surgeless healing you may need. Probably they are on par.
Edit: considering again the power of the two... powers :D i've changed my mind. So, the level 10 power will be healing figurine.
Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995

My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 04, 2010 - 2:33AM #16
PopFenton
Date Joined: Jul 3, 2009
Posts: 38
Looks good. I think it has a good control base and can deal with whatever the challenges can pop up in an encounter.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 04, 2010 - 2:40AM #17
Nausicaa
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 3,101

Dec 4, 2010 -- 2:33AM, PopFenton wrote:

Looks good. I think it has a good control base and can deal with whatever the challenges can pop up in an encounter.




TY ^^

Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995

My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 04, 2010 - 6:54AM #18
alien270
Date Joined: Dec 7, 2008
Posts: 2,038

Dec 3, 2010 -- 11:57PM, Nausicaa wrote:


@Alien: ty alien ^^ unfortunately i don't know what character you are talking about, but i would be glad if you could explain better



The guild is a web series about a group of online gamers.  Codex is the main character's avatar, and basically I tried to fit my power selection with references that are made about Codex's abilities (for example, we know that Codex can "buff against elements," so I chose Holy Vestments, we know that she has "mass heal" so Healer's Mercy fits well).

It's a really funny series, you should check it out:  www.watchtheguild.com/

EDIT:  What are your thoughts on prioritizing stats if you wanted to go with Human?  At first I was inclined to choose Int since it affects your AC, but Magic Weapon does have that nifty little +1 to-hit, which would bring it up to the level of your Wis attacks if you chose Wis instead.  Another consideration is Brand of the Sun (and many of the other Warpriest powers), which gets its effect off regardless of whether you hit. 

It's notable that if I went this route with a Lightswitch build, I would use a Staff instead of the Drow Long Knife, so the ranged weapon Artificer powers would be out, but Staff Expertise gives it reach, plus there's Hafted Defense and Staff Fighting which could mitigate the lower AC of going with Wis instead of Int.  In either case, I'd probably make it a priority to pick up an Accurate Staff as early as possible to further mitigate only getting a racial bump in 1 attack stat. 

Basically, I see this variant hanging out behind the defender a lot, using ranged (implement) encounter powers and melee weapon powers alike with impunity.  She could also use Magic Weapon to buff a melee striker with Cunning Stalker, staying behind said striker so that it remains the only creature adjacent to the enemy and thus gets both CA and the Magic Weapon buff.  Scouts, Druids, and Rogues in particular would love this, as they can all get bonus damage for having CA.  My only concern would be that those classes tend to be very mobile, and likely to shift away from a target, leaving the Lightswitch variant vulnerable to attack.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 04, 2010 - 12:03PM #19
Zathris
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2009
Posts: 4,343
Ooooh, I forgot about that pesky alternating powers rule.  It's like option overload when leveling a character; "If I take Prophetic Guidance at 1st, I can take Shocking Feedback at 3rd, but if I take Searing Light at 7th that means I can't take Remorse at 13th unless I get rid of Prophetic Guidance or Searing Light"

It is always best to build backwards, so you can see what you "Need" to take, so I see why you've made those choices.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating.  Actually, devastating is too light a word.  Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25
Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul;
Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind;
Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire;
The MECH warrior reaches perfection.

My Guides Show
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 04, 2010 - 12:21PM #20
Nausicaa
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 3,101
@Alien: ty for tv series.. I'm no expert really. Human... i'd probably prioritize wisdom, as you said. Hitting shouldn't be a real issue for this character, since the combo psychic + headband of intellect is a good +1 that stacks with all that CA creating powers. Plus, if you are really worried about hitting, take a good opal ring of remembrance. And try to use Crossbow Caster, since it seems that you can also use it with cleric powers since is an hybrid character. I'm not 100% sure about it, though, and i used the holy symbol to avoid this problem

@Zathris: pretty much... and it's a bad limitation.
Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995

My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός

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