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Lightswitch - Deva Artificer|Cleric/Spell Commander/Chosen of Ioun

                                                               Complete with feathers, a drow-reclaimed sword and a glacial gaze

Science and faith can meet in the modern 4e? Will we finally be able to build a decent cleric that isn't really focused on healing? This build isn't probably the finaly reply, but isn't so far away.

The complete build Show

Analysis of the build characteristics:

This is an experiment around Auspex7 Killswitch build (ty Auspy :*). Basically this build takes the better from these two classes and fits them in a quite decent mix.

The build: Deva for +int/wisdom bonus is mandatory. I considered Githzerai but the feat that combined weapon proficiency and weapon focus didn't apply to Drow Long Knife. Plus, deva has a nice racial feat, Battle Intuition, which is fairly useful to raise Initiative.
16/16 intellect/wisdom is fairly obvious, probably you can safely dump strength and raise charisma.
The cleric part of the build brings Healer's lore (nice for Battle Surge and for Healing Word/Healer's Lore)
The artificer part of the build brings Resistive Formula, which is probably the best healing feature among all leader "Words", that makes this build able to skip the Shared Healing cleric epic feat to be able to have a shared pool of surges from level 1.
From level 6 we get another "OMG" (to be well-mannered) button, which is healer's mercy. Causes you to be weakened, but most people don't care about it since damage is secondary to what this build can do.
Auspicious Birth raises our HP pool from level 1 to decent levels but can be skipped easily.
Good Initiative (+31 at 30th level) and Speed (8 at level 30) makes this build quite mobile.

Power Selection:
At wills: at wills are surely incredibly strong. Magic Weapon is well known as one of the most powerful at wills in the game. Brand of the Sun, from Heroes of Fallen Lands, is the best save-enabler at will in the game and frees literally us from the saving enabling probems.

Encounters:
Level 1: Spike Wire is a good alternative to Magic Weapon spamming when positioning is an issue
Level 3: Hymn of Resurgence is an incredible DPR increaser, CA and Save generator, coupled with a large area and no targeting problem
Level 7: Searing Light is a no asked encounter blind. Blinding is one of the most gruesome conditions and being able to apply it from level 7 quite consistently is really strong
Level 11: Spell Tracer is our second enabling power (the first is a daily, though). Fits well the theme "i can do everything of this build"
Level 13: Barbed Automation can raise party damage, with a little pushing tactic (which is fairly common in defenders/controllers), in an incredible way.
Level 17: Winds of Fury is an incredible movement enabler, prones and pushes. A great starter for your party
Level 23: Prismatic Strike is a beast of a power: It does everything you may want from an encounter: enemy penalty to attack rolls (increased by psychic lock), prones, can't stand up from prone and slides a little bit
Level 27: Healer's Reproof: aoe stunning. Do you really want something else? You have it. Surge+3d6+Wisdom Healing.
 
Dailies:
Level 1: punishing Eye: kept till level 29, this is one of the most incredible damage buffers in the game. Little positioning, can't literally be destroyed and +int to damage. Incredible.
Level 5: Inspire Fervor: having no charisma bonus, Consecrated Grounds can't be used. So i went to Inspire Fervor as Party movement and MBA enabling, plus decent damage.
Level 9: Blade Barrier: i'm quite fond of this power. Incredible damage, useful blockade and autohit. What do you want more?
Level 15: Brilliant Censure: here's our other blind. Aoe Save-End Blinding + 2d6 extra radiant damage? What do you want more? Control, precision and damage.
Level 19: We want to keep our three dailies since this level offers no better alternatives
Level 20: Living Gate: basically until the end of the encounter you can move who you want where you want.
Level 25: Brittle Frost: single target weakening + a couple of nova rounds with an extra +5 damage.
Level 29: Simulacrum: repeat your encounter powers again and re-use one of your dailies. Great capstone power.

Utilities:
Level 2: Resurgent Strength: extra cleric healing + extra damage.
Level 6: Energy Conversion is not only a very strong damage interrupt, but a font of extra THP
Level 10: was quite undecided between battle surge and healing figurine. I chose healing figurine because it is an extra source of saves in case i'm really starved and works as extra free healing. Being able to free my action also improves party damage for the encounter, and the figurine itself can be the target of attacks (basically wasting them)
Level 12: Alter Spell Power is not only a source of extra damage, but a way to finish resistant enemies and to add damage-type cheese to a power
Level 16: Iron hide infusion has to be considered. But a +2 to AC bonus encounter long is better than a +4 for 1 round. So, Astral Shield
Level 22: Diminutive Bodyguard is able to do everything: resist 5 aoe and denies an attack each round. Incredible.
Level 26: the reason because i went avatar of Ioun is in this power. Unerring Foreknowledge is the final enabling power, being able to give for a full encounter a serie of standard actions is incredible.

Feats:
Went on accuracy/defense.

Most important feats are Gambler's Word, which is really nice with all that multi-attacking powers (getting a critical hit each encounter isn't really hard), psychic lock coupled with Gith silver weapon grants a constant -2 on enemy hit. Enchanced Resistive Formula and Supreme Healing double the effectiveness of our healing encounter powers, being able to have constantly 6 encounter healing + the extra from Gambler's word. Finally Defensive Enchanting covers the artificer ranged problem.

Items
Basically this isn't really an item dependant build. I've chosen the classical standard leading items (shared valor, gloves of healing) with a couple of nice things that works with psychic powers (the weapon and the head slots), a lot of power recovery (torc and the two rings), a bit of extra damage which isn't really bad

Level Breakdowns
Level 5 breakdown Show
Level 10 breakdown Show
Level 15 Breakdown Show
Level 20 Breakdown Show
Level 25 Breakdown Show
Level 30 Final Build Show

Changes Log Show

NON-F.A.Q.

Why cleric?? 
This build adds great control to the artificer arsenal. Blinding from relatively low level, consistently proning and stunning enemies makes this build a good off-controller for a little party, being able to free your builds from the control burdain.

Killswitch is better
It is surely better. But the focus of this build is to be able to cover each leader role: it is a great great, GREAT damage increaser. A good save enabler. A quite optimized, but not excessive, healer. A decent enabler, for the Spell Commander PP. A nice movement enabler.
This build covers all single roles efficiently, and in some roles is incredible. Killswitch, instead, is a lovely leader focusing on alpha striking, which is a great (but boring, imho) strategy. Overall, i think that this build could even alpha strike in nova round... naturally worse than Killswitch.

I'll add more FAQ when asked to :D

Hope you enjoyed, at least a little, my build.

Thanks to RuinsFate for the Name and for the Pic ^^

Variants Show

I like this.  The flavor is awesome.

1) Power choices are very well thought out.  I particurally like the blade barrier/winds of fury.  Your choice of utilities is very well done.

2) Nice add with the symbol of victory/epic resurgence/gambler's word

3) I'm a little confused about your use of IAoP

4) Your right, Unerring Foreknowledge is uber.

Nice build, I'm a huge fan of Killswitch, but I really like how you use the Artificer's flavor in a more "traditional" sense.

EDIT - Oh and I love the name homage.

I like it.  Not as focussed on one thing, but that's not a bad trait.

In particular I like that you built it in a non-item-dependent manner.  That makes it a lot more viable for people to use/plagiarize.

-abs

Dec 3, 2010 -- 5:53AM, MC-DrowBane wrote:

I like this.  The flavor is awesome.

1) Power choices are very well thought out.  I particurally like the blade barrier/winds of fury.  Your choice of utilities is very well done.

2) Nice add with the symbol of victory/epic resurgence/gambler's word

3) I'm a little confused about your use of IAoP

4) Your right, Unerring Foreknowledge is uber.

Nice build, I'm a huge fan of Killswitch, but I really like how you use the Artificer's flavor in a more "traditional" sense.

EDIT - Oh and I love the name homage.

ty ^^

IAoP serve as additional damage resource when nova-ing or when obliged to use your Brand of the Sun for save enabling. You can simply melee with your powers and add that extra damage when needed. I need to recalculate budget but it seems fairly large to allow the use of epic tier arms slot. Otherwise, even paragon ones are sufficent

Anyway, didn't want to focus too much on item selection, to make it more viable in LFR campaigns ruled by item rarity rule.

I love the thaumaturge flavor of this build. Il look into it for my next character.

Dec 3, 2010 -- 7:17AM, Haldrik wrote:

I love the thaumaturge flavor of this build. Il look into it for my next character.

Thank you  ^^ I'm very happy about it

Nice build!

It reminds me a bit (or rather strongly) of my own artificer l cleric hybrid, though he was optimized purely for healing and buffing. Using mark of healing, the jorasco jadehand PP and a slew of aoe healing powers, he basically made the party immortal and immune to save-ends effects while buffing with magic weapon/punishing eye on other moments. Glancing over it, I see more than a few feats and powers our builds have in common

Some things I've found that were very useful or fun to have:
-Moment of glory, the level 1 cleric daily, can completely obsolete encounters all the way during heroic and sometimes even into paragon. It might be worth taking a look at it, since from the consecrated ground comment I presume to gather you would have preferred a defensive daily in the level 5 slot.

-One of the Deva bloodline feats allows you to build a temp hp shield each time you take damage from a cold or fire attack. Since these are very common damage types (cold remarkably often during paragon), combining the feat with a resistance item can make you virtually unkillable in certain encounters.
 

Sweet build!  I love the flavor, and from what I can tell it looks effective throughout all tiers of play.  I like how it's a solid secondary controller and a fairly balanced leader.  Extreme specialization can be effective, but I think versatility is sometimes underestimated in Char Op, and besides the fact I think versatile builds are more fun.

EDIT:  This build actually gave me an idea.  I've been messing around with a Heroic Cleric build, basically trying to make Codex from The Guild.  Obviously (if you're familiar with the character) I needed the ability to use staffs as an implement, so I'd defaulted to Invoker M/C with my Human bonus feat.  This build made me realize that Artificer was a much better choice because the skill isn't wasted, plus a Daily use of Resistive Formula is much better (and truer to theme) than an encounter use of Hand of Radiance. 

I like this build a lot.  Until WotC comes out with an Int-secondary cleric build (if ever--maybe for the Knowledge domain?), this works nicely as a light-armor, Int-based healer.  I might be able to do a decent simulation of characters like Raine Sage from Tales of Symphonia using this as a basis.

Thanks for posting!

What are the 'stupid rules about healing word' referenced?

Dec 3, 2010 -- 1:49PM, Salla wrote:

What are the 'stupid rules about healing word' referenced?

I'm assuming the errata that removed the "Divine" keyword?

Notes, comments, critiques, etc:

1. Thread title obviously caught my eye right away, and made me chuckle. Very clever name. Talking to RuinsFate in IRC about that right now, actually.

2. At first glance, I thought it was melee-focused (melee At-Will + melee/range flexible At-Will), and was a little down on the AC. I also thought it might be a little light on healing. In fact, if it had been any number of other people, rather than a person who I view as one of two posters I know of (hi, Gelatinous!) who like Clerics even more than I do, then I'd have assumed it was light on healing. Upon closer inspection, of course, I saw that it is actually a melee/range flexible build, with a lot of ranged powers, and that it adds a slew of alternatives to its two 'words', as well as having a chance to recycle a 'word'. I think this has more to do with the write-up, than anything. You do a great job of explaining why you picked each thing, but it would help those of us who aren't very smart if you would say, "at level 10, this is how many heals you have per encounter, on average, and these are your options"-- and write a little heal round-up, etc. As an example... people who give it a quick look are probably going to miss Healer's Mercy arriving via a Feat at L10, the fact that you already have 2 1/day heals by L10, and the fact that Energy Conversion basically serves as an early heal in each enc.

3. Once I had taken a hard look at it, I saw how well-rounded it really is. In play, I see the default playstyle having it hover 2-5 squares away from the frontline, where it is within 1 move action, and is able to quickly move to any spot where it needs/wants to be in order to grant saves, hand out Magic Weapon buffs, etc. From there, it is easily able to set up its "allies within X squares" powers, remain safe from enemy Brutes, and still be able to make decisions with regard to what it wants to do on a turn-by-turn basis. This is an ideal range for a Leader to operate in, and the power selection here really supports it.

4. The 'total package' is pretty awesome. Strong personal init, so it gets extra value out of its control options... very strong save-granting ability... enough Nova to put a huge hole in a key bad guy (or make a hole out of it!)... strong healing line-up, and great surge-efficiency... very strong NADs, and solid AC for the operating range... the powers are a grab-bag, and provide a nice range of options at the table.

5. This is something I always key in on-- At-Wills. When this build runs out of 'cool stuff', it can still grant saves at-will, and has Magic Weapon. That's definitely awesome.


All in all, I really like it.

I've got a near identical character at level 10, the main difference being that I haven't added HotFL powers.  That being said, in actual play I wouldn't be taking Drow Long Knife so early, nor Superior Implement so late.  The build also seems very Healing light in Heroic and mid-Paragon especially, unless I'm missing something this is the breakdown:
1: 2 Encounter Heals
2-7: 2 Encounter, 1 Daily
8-9: 2 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 1 Daily
10: 2 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 1 Daily, 1 Daily AoE
11-20: 2(3)+1 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 1 Daily, 1 Daily AoE
21-26: 2(4)+1 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 1 Daily, 1 Daily AoE
27-28: 3(5)+1 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 1 Daily, 1 Daily AoE
29-30: 3(5)+1 Encounter, 1 Encounter AoE, 4(5) Daily, 2 Daily AoE

Of course, you can simply drop Hybrid Talent - Healer's Mercy to level 4 and basically eliminate the Heroic gap, but in Paragon when you only have 2 actual encounter heals (my problem with Resistive's proactive healing you can't bring someone up from unconscious with it, and you only have a 40% chance of it helping to prevent someone from going down).  Unless you're playing high-optimization and can kill every NPC by round 4, this puts you at severe risk if you don't crit.

As nice as Energy Conversion is, it just doesn't have the scaling needed in Paragon, and Resurgent Strength doesn't stack with Magic Weapon, I'd prefer Restorative Infusion and either Stream of Life or Spirit of Healing for 2nd and 6th.

From personal experience, Healing Figurine is utterly amazing since it gives 3 people Surgeless Healing and a Save, and your Word/Mercy targets (or people who 2nd wind) next to it add your Wisdom mod again.  The effectively free saves have enabled me to Magic Weapon instead of Sacred Flame, which is really the only reason I'd choose this over Battle Surge.  Though Battle Surge does let you choose Vorpal Weapon at 16th (every table I'm at has some multi-attacking striker, be it an Avenger, Ranger, or a Blaster).  So for me, it's really a case of taking the Figurine until 16th and retrain to Battle Surge.  I'm also not a fan of 1 round defense boosts like Iron Hide, Mileage and parties may vary of course.

I would strongly consider taking Remorse at 13th, it does everything you could want from a power in this build except damage.  Multi-target, vs Will for Accuracy, Enemies Only (kinda), Dazes for control, Vulnerable 10 for enabling, and Allies can spend a surge.

When you mention 6 Encounter Heals, are you referring to the fact that both "Words" have 2 targets, or am I missing something.  Right now I see Healing Word, Resistive Formula, Healer's Mercy, and then you pick up a 4th at 27th with Healers Reproof.

Overall I like the build, I'm just concerned about that Paragon healing.

Thank to everyone for the feedback and compliments. I'll try to reply in chronological order

@Lunattic: I've considered Moment of Glory, and i've found that Punishing Eye is an overall superior choice, if different. The fact is that this build is versatile at the point you can change powers without problems. Overall, though, i built it primarly as an offensive leader and damage buffer... punishing eye is a staple, basically. I have considered also that feat, but i was a little tight, expecially in the heroic tier.

@Alien: ty alien ^^ unfortunately i don't know what character you are talking about, but i would be glad if you could explain better

@Pazu: ty ^^

@Salla: in HotFL healing word hasn't the Divine Keyword. We get Healer's Lore for free, but it's not that useful unless you put that divine keyword again in it. Works for Healer's Mercy, though

@Auspy: ^^ I was waiting for your comment and i'm quite embarassed about it... Didn't think the reply could be so positive and i'm very happy. I'll write up a per-level summary surely. Probably something can be addressed and will be changed but i think it's normal. Yes, this is a "pseudo-ranged" build, a bit like the ranged cleric. Its decent speed and the movement enabling powers (living gate, for example) actually helps it land those powers and Winds of Fury actually is very synergic with many powers.

Imagine an encounter power "nova" with an AP... level 27+

Magic Weapon minor
Winds of Fury
Move
AP with BA tied (or Arcane at will, which is very strong if you have a warlock or a sorcerer, or whatever) (regain Winds of Fury)
Healer's Reproof

This is basically a super-super easy combo: Aoe stunning + healing + movement + MBA granting + extra damage from magic weapon. Probably there are better combos, but that one came into my mind immediately.

@Zathris: yeah, i had the same feeling. But from early paragon you get enhanced resistive formula which acts as double cushion. Since you can use resistive formula early in the encounter and then progress to heal with Healing Word or Healer's Mercy. I don't see this build particularly light on healing, frankly.
I've considered Remorse, but i may had to change the entire encounter power progression, since, if i take a cleric power at level 13, i'd only have cleric power (not legal).
I don't consider Energy Conversion a badly scaling power. I've used for a lot of time reverent mettle and this power is strictly superior. About the Figurine... Again, probably is better... battle surge gives that extra surgeless healing you may need. Probably they are on par.
Edit: considering again the power of the two... powers :D i've changed my mind. So, the level 10 power will be healing figurine.

Looks good. I think it has a good control base and can deal with whatever the challenges can pop up in an encounter.

Dec 4, 2010 -- 2:33AM, PopFenton wrote:

Looks good. I think it has a good control base and can deal with whatever the challenges can pop up in an encounter.

TY ^^

Dec 3, 2010 -- 11:57PM, Nausicaa wrote:

@Alien: ty alien ^^ unfortunately i don't know what character you are talking about, but i would be glad if you could explain better

The guild is a web series about a group of online gamers.  Codex is the main character's avatar, and basically I tried to fit my power selection with references that are made about Codex's abilities (for example, we know that Codex can "buff against elements," so I chose Holy Vestments, we know that she has "mass heal" so Healer's Mercy fits well).

It's a really funny series, you should check it out:  www.watchtheguild.com/

EDIT:  What are your thoughts on prioritizing stats if you wanted to go with Human?  At first I was inclined to choose Int since it affects your AC, but Magic Weapon does have that nifty little +1 to-hit, which would bring it up to the level of your Wis attacks if you chose Wis instead.  Another consideration is Brand of the Sun (and many of the other Warpriest powers), which gets its effect off regardless of whether you hit. 

It's notable that if I went this route with a Lightswitch build, I would use a Staff instead of the Drow Long Knife, so the ranged weapon Artificer powers would be out, but Staff Expertise gives it reach, plus there's Hafted Defense and Staff Fighting which could mitigate the lower AC of going with Wis instead of Int.  In either case, I'd probably make it a priority to pick up an Accurate Staff as early as possible to further mitigate only getting a racial bump in 1 attack stat. 

Basically, I see this variant hanging out behind the defender a lot, using ranged (implement) encounter powers and melee weapon powers alike with impunity.  She could also use Magic Weapon to buff a melee striker with Cunning Stalker, staying behind said striker so that it remains the only creature adjacent to the enemy and thus gets both CA and the Magic Weapon buff.  Scouts, Druids, and Rogues in particular would love this, as they can all get bonus damage for having CA.  My only concern would be that those classes tend to be very mobile, and likely to shift away from a target, leaving the Lightswitch variant vulnerable to attack.

Ooooh, I forgot about that pesky alternating powers rule.  It's like option overload when leveling a character; "If I take Prophetic Guidance at 1st, I can take Shocking Feedback at 3rd, but if I take Searing Light at 7th that means I can't take Remorse at 13th unless I get rid of Prophetic Guidance or Searing Light"

It is always best to build backwards, so you can see what you "Need" to take, so I see why you've made those choices.

@Alien: ty for tv series.. I'm no expert really. Human... i'd probably prioritize wisdom, as you said. Hitting shouldn't be a real issue for this character, since the combo psychic + headband of intellect is a good +1 that stacks with all that CA creating powers. Plus, if you are really worried about hitting, take a good opal ring of remembrance. And try to use Crossbow Caster, since it seems that you can also use it with cleric powers since is an hybrid character. I'm not 100% sure about it, though, and i used the holy symbol to avoid this problem

@Zathris: pretty much... and it's a bad limitation.

Dec 3, 2010 -- 11:57PM, Nausicaa wrote:

@Salla: in HotFL healing word hasn't the Divine Keyword. We get Healer's Lore for free, but it's not that useful unless you put that divine keyword again in it. Works for Healer's Mercy, though.

Actually Healer's Lore doesn't care whether the power in question is Divine or not, just that it's a Cleric power, and fortunately Healing Word is still listed as a Cleric power for Clerics.

Dec 4, 2010 -- 4:55PM, Namillus wrote:

Dec 3, 2010 -- 11:57PM, Nausicaa wrote:

@Salla: in HotFL healing word hasn't the Divine Keyword. We get Healer's Lore for free, but it's not that useful unless you put that divine keyword again in it. Works for Healer's Mercy, though.

Actually Healer's Lore doesn't care whether the power in question is Divine or not, just that it's a Cleric power, and fortunately Healing Word is still listed as a Cleric power for Clerics.

Oh ty, i can delete that line. Actually i should re-read old features, shouldn't I?

Finished Level breakdowns ^^

I was adding my guy to the new CB (yeah, it's been a while ...) and I came up with something that might be useful to your build.  Replacing Proficiency DLK and Versatile Expertise with Arcane Implement Proficiency - Light Blade and Light Blade Expertise nets you the same Attack and Damage (+3/1d6 vs +3/1d4+1) and of course Superior implement Accurate Dagger instead of Symbol.  This allows all of your powers to benefit from Githyanki+Psychic Lock combo.

You may want to change Iron Will over to Superior Will as well.

Dec 31, 2010 -- 10:08PM, Zathris wrote:

I was adding my guy to the new CB (yeah, it's been a while ...) and I came up with something that might be useful to your build.  Replacing Proficiency DLK and Versatile Expertise with Arcane Implement Proficiency - Light Blade and Light Blade Expertise nets you the same Attack and Damage (+3/1d6 vs +3/1d4+1) and of course Superior implement Accurate Dagger instead of Symbol.  This allows all of your powers to benefit from Githyanki+Psychic Lock combo.

You may want to change Iron Will over to Superior Will as well.

Githyanki is Heavy Blade only.

Though if she MCed Swordmage instead of taking AIP she'd also get Swordmage Warding one encounter/day (though at 18 she gets a shield which obviously hampers this idea). I think the Holy Symbol is mostly there for the accuracy and the extra AP, I'm not sure what she could spend that feat on.

/forehead.  Ignore me.

Dec 31, 2010 -- 10:44PM, Zathris wrote:

D'oh forgot DLK was a heavy.
Heavy Blade Expertise isn't too bad, still need the proficiency with DLK so you'd have to lose the Superior Implement (and either Battle Intuition or Improved Defenses until Paragon) to get +2 vs OA, Psychic Lock on ever Power, and Warding for an Encounter (Still +1 AC with the Shield).

Since I'm not planning on having a shield anyway, this is very tempting.

Heavy Blade Expertise only applies to Weapon attacks (not Impliment). That is why she has Versatile, she'd need it even if she didn't use a Holy Symbol.

Yes, as Alcestis said the holy symbol is there for the AP and the extra accuracy on implement attacks (dailies, most). The problem with this character is that it uses melee/ranged weapon and ranged implement attacks.

@Zathris: the feat was already superior will not iron will My bad.

I love it for 2 main reasons.

1.  It is a leader that focuses on leading - and is very good at it.

2.  It has an anime picture.

Jan 1, 2011 -- 4:29AM, Aranador wrote:

I love it for 2 main reasons.

1.  It is a leader that focuses on leading - and is very good at it.

2.  It has an anime picture.

Ty ^^ Searching purposefully for a cleric|artificer - deva, furthermore... is impossible, but Ruins really made a miracle with that pic. With a little imagination she can be easily associated to 3.5 Aasimars and has a sword.

Oh - I occasionally trawl the net and snag cool looking pictures of all sorts of fantasy heros. I have a couple that might also suit - if I knew how to do pictures in a forum post and my internets weren't so damn slow and crappy, I'd offer them.

On the other hand, the picture is already cool

First of all, cool build! I've been looking for a good int-wis artificer hybrid (other than it-wis ficer-warlord), and this combines cleric and artificer beautifully.

A little question, though. What do you think of Exacting Utterance instead of Spike Wire for Enc 1? While Wire does more damage, Exacting Utterance offers a bit of healing, plus, as I read it, Punishing Eye would trigger another use of the vulnerability outside of the ally's triggering attack. That would make for some huge damage increase for one turn when you have both Eye and Utterance up.

The downside is that it means you'd lose Hymn of Resurgence on Enc 3, but Shocking Feedback is not a bad substitute since it's an interrupt. Both does different things, though, and I'd understand if you don't want to lose hymn.

Apr 2, 2011 -- 4:07AM, Fei wrote:

First of all, cool build! I've been looking for a good int-wis artificer hybrid (other than it-wis ficer-warlord), and this combines cleric and artificer beautifully.

A little question, though. What do you think of Exacting Utterance instead of Spike Wire for Enc 1? While Wire does more damage, Exacting Utterance offers a bit of healing, plus, as I read it, Punishing Eye would trigger another use of the vulnerability outside of the ally's triggering attack. That would make for some huge damage increase for one turn when you have both Eye and Utterance up.

The downside is that it means you'd lose Hymn of Resurgence on Enc 3, but Shocking Feedback is not a bad substitute since it's an interrupt. Both does different things, though, and I'd understand if you don't want to lose hymn.

Thanks ^^

Yes, i have considered this kind of a change and the build wouldn't be really different. The point is that Hymn is an incredible accuracy i'd not like to lose it. Shocking Feedback is a good power but it is imho inferior to Hymn.
Admittedly, though, Spike Wire isn't that incredible encounter 1 and is surely inferior to EUtterance.

That's a kind of tough choice, admittedly. What really wins, at least from my perspective, is HoR, but i could put your option in an alternative build section

(obligatory cool flavor yay build blah blah blah)

I have some thoughts about utility powers, particularly because your attack powers are so strong I would rather not give up standard actions, and I just don't like daily powers if I can help it.

1) Would the difference between Bastion of Health (U6) and Resurgent Strength be worth losing Energy Conversion for?  You could pick up either Restorative Infusion in the U2 in low levels, and retrain it to Swift Mender at higher levels (where you won't want to use Brand of the Sun as often).

2) Did you consider Recuperative Enchantment at U10?  It doesn't eat up any actions, you don't have to worry about what encounter to use it in, and in long adventuring days (where surgeless healing matters), it begins to dramatically outstrip healing figurine in the free surges provided. 

3) Similarly, at 16, would you consider bumping down to U10 to pick up whichever you passed up, or possibly Slick Concoction?  I'm not a huge fan of Astral Shield on people with powerful at-wills, and there is so much juice in U10.

And on a broader note: Are there any feats you could give up to squeeze in an Invoker MC?  With INT/WIS and Deva racials, the extra skill will be put to good use, and I feel like Ritual Casting (w/ the free Hand of Fate) would both round out the loss of some of the above dailies and get you a Raise Dead.  It would also open up the Flame of Hope paragon path, which at might be stronger than Spell Commander as you don't have Killswitch's Direct the Strike.

1) I'm an huge fan of energy conversion and losing such a good immediate interrupt is quite severe. On the other hand bastion of health is really a good power for a ranged cleric but it suffers a bit in our context: lack of charisma and chance to be in melee makes BoH kind of crippled. Resurgent Strength isn't all that power, admittedly, but it's a surge burst 3 and gains benefit from Healer's Lore. As for Fei's request, the difference between the possible builds isn't great but my version benefit a little more for being in melee.
2) Yes i've considered that but i don't like that power for the implied cheese it offers to good players. I know that Killswitch build has it, but i wanted to stay far from it and use healing figurine or Battle surge.
3) Yes, sure. I'm a really huge fan of AS but slick concoction is incredible. You can even take it at level 10, since once you get at 11, with the incredible Enhanced Resistive Formula, you should have enough healing. On the other hand AS is basically an eternal +2 bonus to AC for your melees (and yourself too), and you get winds of fury at level 17 and the couple of dailies at level 5 and 20 to boost the situational movement you may want.
4) Yes, potent restorables and rapid infusions (to gain back enhanced r.f.) are two possible choices. Flame of Hope is incredible and i wanted to make an alternative build. But the target of this build wasn't really beating KS on enabling (which is impossible), but creating a really universal leader, capable of everything.

First of all, I'd like to thank you for the awesome and extremely cool build. Been very interested in your build for a little while and figured I'd give it a try.

I'm planning to be using it with one change - Swapping the level 5 Daily for a the new Level 5 Daily from Heroes of Shadow that grants an Undead follower from a dead enemy. That Power combined with the Artificer's ability to grant temp HP equal to an ally's healing surge value, would work very well. (Imagine a Solo with 600 HP that's stuck at 1 HP due to the power, and then gains 150 temp. He'd be a great meat shield.)

 My DM just started a new campaign at lvl 11 and I figured I'd give it a try, but my optimizer brain keeps running into problems.

1) Our party consists of:
- 1 Hybrid Lock/Swordmage - Defender
- 1 Slayer (soon to be Blackguard)
- 1 Dragon Soul Sorcerer (Infinite Breaths - but HR to only 1/turn)
- 1 X-Bow Ranger
- and 1 Lightswitch

So while I do have a few candidates for benfits from the PP, I can't seem to get my head wrapped around why I'd pick the Spell Commander over another PP like Flame of Hope, or just run one of the Radiant PPs.

Our DM grants us 2 extra feats (1 Heroic, 1 PP) as a HR, so I have the wiggle room to fit in an MC feat. (IE: Swordmage MC for Heavyblade Implements or Invoker MC for Falme of Hope). Our DM has limited our ability to purchases Uncommon magic items with gold, so going from 1 weapon + 1 implement to 1 Weaplement seems like a good idea. Going Swordmage would let me run a radiant weapon and benefit from radiant feats on all my powers.

Is there a better PP to choose for the Lightswitch build given that my party is suboptimal for Spell Commander and I have 2 extra feats?

2) I am the only healer, but from past experience most of our players have good defenses and do not usually go down very often. This leads me to think that I can skip out on the Hybrid Talent and the Channel Divinity power, but at the same time I'm not sure what I should be taking instead.

3) What do you think of the Deva ED - Soul of the World. It grants bonuses to both Int and Wis, as well as allows you to take powers from another class. I'm not sure what class would be best, but I think it's a solid alternative to Chosen. I know the Chosen of Ioun ED is great, but we are running in a custom world and I'm not likely going to be worshipping a god of Knowledge. Is there another ED you'd pick before Soul of the World? Maybe Avatar of Death?! (Probably going to worship a death god)

@Daerth: I'm not Nausicaa (obv) but I think I can try to tackle your questions

1) Lightswitch takes Spell Commander so the build has at least a couple ways of granting allies attacks, as part of the "do everything" schtick.  If that schtick isn't as important to you, rotating it out would be fine and Flame of Hope is likely an excellent choice (though also worth mentioning are the classic Divine Oracle and the silly-yet-effective Exorcist of the Sacred Flame).

2) Mercy is important because a lot of Lightswitch's healing is pro-active rather than re-active.  Particularly without a Gambling Word trigger, Mercy gives you an encounter-frequency way to recover if the enemies either get lucky or ignore your THP shielded guys.

3) Soul of the World is hot (especially with Flame of Hope if you want to second wind for fun and profit), but in the non-demigod realm Sage of Ages is worth a look.

@Seifalmasy

1) Exorcist of the Sacred Flame seems weak. The level 11 feature depends on you dealing Fire Damage and many of the class abilities only exceptional around demons, devils, shapechangers, or undead. It also seems that being able to reliably deal fire or radiant damage when playing as a hybrid is tough. I suppose I could MC swordmage and run around with a radiant weapon to get by that, but that stilll leaves the issue with the 11 feature that is only on fire damage.

Divine Oracle is always a good classic, but my artificer power won't be targeting will often. I suppose by sticking with Cleric vs Will powers I could get by only missing out on 1 Encounter and 1 Daily due to the Artificer.

Lastly what is your opinion of the Swordmage vs Invoker MC choice? I'd have to MC Invoker to go Flame, but the SwordMage saves me on having to waste treasure drops on an extra item and would let me run the radiant weapon for a little extra damage.

[My DM runs the APL +1,+2,+3,+4 treasure package method, so every 5 levels I get 4 items (3 of which are of my choice). This means that given I upgrade my Cloak, Symbol, Weapon and Armor every opprtunity I'd have little room for the other useful items. I suppose I could stagger the upgrades: Go from a +3 Armor to a +5, a +2 Cloak to a +4, etc.]

2) Yeah I had a feeling that Mercy would be needed, even though my past experience led me to believe that 1 word + 1 infusion (more like 2) was enough. It's an excellent point that half to two-thirds of my healing is proactive and cannot get a downed ally up.

3) Can you explain what you mean by "second wind for fun and profit".

Is there a specific thing I should be looking to do in order to profit from it? (Race, Feats, etc.)
I'd imagine dwarf as the 21 feature to get a SW as a minor. Then what race should I pick at level 24.

Also any advice on class to pick as my feature for level 24?

[Note: My DM allows nearly a full retrain at every level, so at level 24 I could swap every power out if I wanted. How does this interact with the hybrid requirements? Am I still subject to the 1 Cleric/Artificer Encounter/Daily/Utility limitation]

1) A simple Arcane Admixture fixes the damage type problems.  As Magic Weapon will see a lot more use than Brand of the Sun (particularly if you focus on the artificer's interrupt powers), it gives you a reliable way to dish out 2x WIS mod temps, and it happens whether or not you hit.  There's something cute about combining that with the Effect: Save on brand of the sun, in terms of never wasting an action missing.  Being able to put mini-shields on the guys who didn't get the big-shields seems useful, though it probably doesn't have Flame of Hope's raw power.

The text on Arcane Implement Proficiency: "Choose a kind of implement associated with an arcane class.  You can now use that kind of implement."  So I don't think you're locked into swordmage if you want the weapliment - make the sword an "implement you can now use" and it should work for all your powers.  There may be a rules discussion here I'm missing.

Neither of those two feats are awesome in the abstract, but you said you have feats to spare.

3) Oh didn't mean much, just that the Flame of Hope's level 16 feature looks sort of silly as a standard action, but sort of awesome as a minor, if you Soul of the World into Dwarf (giving the leader a self-heal doesn't suck, either).  I can't say I've studied Soul of the World combos very much, so I don't really have any advice for race/class after that.  You could pick wizard and retrain into their borken dailies, I guess.

Edit: Ph3 p. 136: "Even if you later change your powers through retraining, power-swap feats, or some other means, you must retain at least one power in each of those four categories [at-will, encounter, daily, utility] from both your classes."

1) Yeah admixture would fix the fire issue on my MagicWeapon power, since I'll be using that alot more than Brand of Sun. Why do you say I dishes out 2x Wis temp? Isn't it 1xWis...unless you mean due to IIs and IRs.

So I guess I'll be going Flame of Hope.

As for the MC choice, yeah arcane implement prof would get me my heavy blade as an implement.

Question is, is it worth it? I've moved over to Pychic Cheese using a Silver Gith weapon...so now to decide if I need the Cheese on my implement powers or if it's okay to just have it on MagicWeapon and other Weapon based powers.

2) Yeah seems to me like that would make alot of sense. Getting a heal as a minor is great and the 1d6+wis damage / temp HP is nice to have also.

Hoping to have some advice on what to do with Soul of the World. One of our players says I could pick Cavalier since it's a class (and they don't restrict it to only normal non-essential classes) and get it's mount (as that is a utility power), it would still allow me to snag some pally powers also (since Cavalier is a paladin too), but I doubt it would be worth while (since powers are all Str/Cha based).

So looking for some advice on how to proceed in the Epic tier.


@Seif: PS: Thx for all the quick and informative replys Seif.

I've never played a soul of the world but it seems it could work really well... avatar of ioun is exceptional, though. If you drop psychic weapon i'd suggest you to go for Destined Scion since grabbing that extra +1 to hit is really good.

For the PP i think that Spell Commander, with a sorcerer and a swordmage|warlock is more than optimal. If you don't want it: Flame of Hope, Warpriest (yes, even if you don't wear heavy armours), Battle Engineer and, since you have a Slayer, Zealous Demagogue would work lovely.

About your last question: remember that temp-hp are problematic with artificer heal(s). This is why i chose direct heals, mainly. About Healer's Mercy, in the tests i've not used it, but maybe i didn't have the chance since the module was a cakewalk.

Thanks Seifal for replies ^^

Apr 2, 2011 -- 4:54AM, Nausicaa wrote:

Thanks ^^

Yes, i have considered this kind of a change and the build wouldn't be really different. The point is that Hymn is an incredible accuracy i'd not like to lose it. Shocking Feedback is a good power but it is imho inferior to Hymn.
Admittedly, though, Spike Wire isn't that incredible encounter 1 and is surely inferior to EUtterance.

That's a kind of tough choice, admittedly. What really wins, at least from my perspective, is HoR, but i could put your option in an alternative build section

It would kinda depend on your playstyle too, i guess. If you're wading into melee often, then shocking feedback loses value, while HoR gets even better. It'd depend on the party make-up too, but in a vacuum, I agree that HoR is better. I'd settle with EU for the first two levels before retraining to spike wire, I guess.

@Daerthalus : I'd say that AIP for gith silver weapon is not bad, but the cost of two feats, plus losing accurate holy symbol's bonus is a bit too steep. Granted, the build is not that tight on feats, but the payoff's not really worth it IMO.

@Nausicaa

Thx for the reply.

Yeah I guess it wouldn't be too bad with a Sorcerer and Warlock to run Spell Commander, but I don't find myself granting many BAs besides the ones given out by Spell Commander. Assuming I don't grant anyother BAs and noone else the group does do you still feel Spell Commander is worth it?

We're losing the Slayer when the new Essential Book of Shadows comes up in two weeks, so any kind of party optimization based on him is a waste. He'll be rolling a Blackguard, which is a "paladin striker". I haven't seen wheter or not he'll have a MBA power, but he will have high strength, so he can do MBAs. He'll still probably want to charge since he says he'll be using a mount, but alot of this depend on what Blackguard get from the Book.

I guess Zealous Demagogue could be worth looking at, but seems weaker than Flame of Hope, since the level 11 benefit are not in line with my knowledges. I end up having to be the ritual caster in the group so I took: Arcana (from MC Invoker), Heal, Religion, Perception. I got the ritual caster feat more/less free, so that not an issue - just the required knowledges needed to be taken.
The AP ability is quite good, but might not be as good as Flame. The only advantage I see to the Demagogue is that I save the MC feat from Invoker.

Why War Priest? The heavy armor bonus won't apply, the AP grants me more damage on my attacks rather than buffing my allies, and the level 16 ability (which is awesome) doesn't seem like it will apply much since I won't be in melee that often. [Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the powers you picked are ranged (often short range), so there is little insentive to get in melee unless I need to, in order to grant MW to more allies. There is no reason I couldn't get in melee if I need to though]

@Fei

I'd say that AIP for gith silver weapon is not bad, but the cost of two feats, plus losing accurate holy symbol's bonus is a bit too steep. Granted, the build is not that tight on feats, but the payoff's not really worth it IMO.

The lost +1 to hit from the Accurate is made up by the +1 to hit on Psychic attacks I get from my Helm of Intellect.

And it only costs 1 feat - AIP.

Still a feat is a feat, and even with 2 extra they are a precious commodity.

Actually the build can be played indifferently in melee and ranged. Warpriest AP feature is one of the best in the game (extra damage is extra damage), powers are neat, the level 11 feature is really good and the marking feature adds extra damage (even if it requires you to spend your MC feat to swordmage, for example) and extra staying power. Imho it's one of the best variants for the build, with Battle Engineer.

Zealous demagogue was suggested because you had a slayer in the group ^^

Thanks for the advice, and sorry to be such a pain in the butt.

Battle Engineer looks good actually. Do you feel it is superior to Flame of Hope?

War Priest lvl 16 ability grants me an opportunity attack, wouldn't that be a MBA? If so, wouldn't the fact the build has low strength mean this MBA would miss and deal poor damage? Unless your basing it on me taking Intelligent Blademaster and MCing Swordmage. Essentially costing 2 feats (1 if I was to take AIP anyways).
Despite that do you feel this is a better way to go, than Engineer or Flame?

Nice build, lots of flavor and seems fun to play.

Re: Battle Engineer and Flame of Hope

I had a long pros/cons schpiel, but then I remembered: You have a ranger in your party.  Battle Engineer is probably the pick for that reason alone, as the closest comparison (greater magic weapon vs. action point) is a clear win for the Engineer.  Lightswitch probably doesn't need the extra leader inclinations of the Flame of Hope.

@Nausicaa: I have to say, the first time I looked over this list I was like "...meh," as I'm sure my post suggested somewhat.  But the more I've looked at it, I've gotten more "...huh.  Neat." as I'm sure my responses to Daerth suggested.

BATTLE ENGINEER  PATH FEATURES

    Aggressive Action (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you gain a +1 bonus to weapon attack rolls until the end of your next turn, and your weapon attacks deal 1d6 extra damage until the end of your next turn.
    Brutal Enchantment (11th level): Whenever one of your artificer or battle engineer powers grants an ally a bonus to weapon damage rolls, that ally’s weapon also becomes brutal 1 until the bonus ends. If the weapon is already brutal, this has no effect.
    Accurate Enhancement (16th level): Whenever one of your artificer or battle engineer powers grants a bonus to weapon attack rolls to an ally, that bonus increases by 2.


I agree the Flame may be extra leaderish, when I'm pretty damn awesome leaderwise as it is. So maybe it's a little too much. The Engineer on the hand has a strong case due to GMW, but I fear that much of the rest of the features are not going to be as good as a hybrid.

Does this cause use to rethink/change any of our original power choices? Is there a reason to pick/focus on powers that grant bonuses to weapon attack rolls to benefit from the Level 16 feature or to pick up more artificer powers? It seems that Nausicaa's build has us running minimal artificer powers, with a greater focus on Cleric powers.

Also given that I'm going for Soul of the World as an ED, I was planning on taking Wizard as my ED class choice...this would allow me to swap out 1 Daily/1Encounter/1Utility for Wizard powers, is this still worth while with a PP that is very Artificer Focused, rather than another PP that is more universal?

@Daerthalus:
I'd "rank" the pp selection this way:

Flame of Hope: generally good, invoker MC doesn't require additional investment and the PP has extraordinary powers. On the lower side it's a bit too much focalized on healing and this can be a problem for more offensive players

Warpriest: requires at very very least a decent OA before level 16. Powers are incredibly good, features are probably even better. Better for ranged-focused groups, requires a bit more resilience: Swordmage MC is perfect, since you have a sword weapon, you can go for radiant weapon and Radiant Recovery to be a little more sturdy. In the paragon tier you can get Hide Armor (47 armor at level 30 is more than enough)

Battle Engineer: requires a mostly-melee or weapon based party, but the damage increasing factor is incredible, since you are going to take mostly buffing powers. One-sided build, but powerful.

About a possible rethink, the heavy-weights of the artificer are more or less 3: magic weapon, punishing eye and prismatic strike. Other good powers, but mainly on par with cleric choice are Diminutive Boyguard and Barbed Automaton. Cleric best powers are, imho: Hymn of Resurgence, Healer's Reproof, Brilliant Censure and Winds of Fury.

@Seifalmasy: ty ^^ Yes, the build seems meh because it has not a clear front-line appeal like Killswitch. It does a bit of everything... but it does it really well. The only problem i've noticed, after a couple of tests is a bit of fragility at levels 12-15. This requires you to be a little more self-focused, but you can always take shield proficiency before.

@Cazzeyo: ty ^^

Favored Soul might work pretty well for this, since it's Wis based. (and the anime flavour with the hot chick with angel wings is very, very cool too)

Jul 28, 2011 -- 12:17PM, MtlKnight wrote:

Favored Soul might work pretty well for this, since it's Wis based. (and the anime flavour with the hot chick with angel wings is very, very cool too)

Thanks. Yeah, Favored Soul could work. I have to rebuild this, when i'll have time. This build is outdated.

Jul 28, 2011 -- 12:23PM, Nausicaa wrote:

Jul 28, 2011 -- 12:17PM, MtlKnight wrote:

Favored Soul might work pretty well for this, since it's Wis based. (and the anime flavour with the hot chick with angel wings is very, very cool too)

Thanks. Yeah, Favored Soul could work. I have to rebuild this, when i'll have time. This build is outdated.

I was wondering about building this again now with a wood elf, with sense treat, Battle Cleric not healer's lore, for scale and +2 shield bonus, and taking moonbow dedicate to get short bow as implement on both divine and arcane powers.
Brand of the sun, suffers requiring melee weapon, but I think if you need he save you could swap weapons.
Plus you get  weapon as implement shards and archery items.

Is this version viable?
Can we improve upon it?

Sep 2, 2011 -- 7:30PM, yargon wrote:

I was wondering about building this again now with a wood elf, with sense treat, Battle Cleric not healer's lore, for scale and +2 shield bonus, and taking moonbow dedicate to get short bow as implement on both divine and arcane powers.  Brand of the sun, suffers requiring melee weapon, but I think if you need he save you could swap weapons. Plus you get  weapon as implement shards and archery items.  Is this version viable? Can we improve upon it?

I've thought about a couple of extra perks:

1) BCL, that is 100% in
2) Devoted protector expertise with a shield. This means you'll keep your nice reflex bonus and you'll have extra +1 reflex basically free
3) Personally i love Brand of the Sun. I'd not leave home without it, so i think i'll leave it in the build
4) I have to add absolutely Valorous Charge and (possibly) Brilliant Idea.

If Essentials content wasn't allowed (HoFL, DSCS, HoS, etc), what would be the best Cleric at-will option to replace Brand of the Sun? Would Lightswitch still be an optimal build without Essentials content?

Some thoughts on other at-wills:

• Gaze of Defiance: For those times when your allies are too scattered to benefit from Magic Weapon
• Lance of Faith: Same principle, plus radiant damage for fighting undead in heroic
• Sacred Flame: a save-enabler replacement for brand of the sun (although inferior as it cannot grant you a save)
• Sonnlinor's Hammer: simply to have an MBA

Thoughts?

Define "essentials content". This isn't a warpriest build.

Without Brand of the Sun you'd pick Sacred Flame. You'll also, I assume, lose Winds of Fury, though I wouldn't know the ideal replacement for it off-hand.

Oct 19, 2011 -- 5:45PM, erachima wrote:

Define "essentials content". This isn't a warpriest build.

I mentioned the books I was referring to (Heroes of the Fallen Lands/Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, Dark Sun Campaign Setting, Heroes of Shadow). Basically anything published after the PHB3/MM3/DMG3.

Dark Sun Campaign Setting, "Essentials"? Huh?

Anyway, you lose some very nice powers from the cleric side, but a bunch of those aren't in the build at the moment. So I wouldn't consider it a deal-breaker.

I have no time to update the build, basically. Winds of fury is a really good movement enhancer, but you have a really wide choice. I'd put also in the build Valorous Charge at level 27 (NWCS), one of the new weaplment feats and possibly the Corellon level 3 encounter power.

I have a question regarding this build and it's variants.  Would a Hammer of Gond variant be any good ?  The reason is because the feat gives access to ranged, implement and melee attacks on the build using only one weapon.   

It's decent at low levels when feat starved, but the build strongly favors accurate weapon attacks in general so spending the extra feats to get a +3 Proficiency Weapon is basically what you end up doing anyway.