One of the real features that I have come to appreciate about WotC's VT has is that there is no need to monkey with opening up ports in your firewall. Everytime I try to bring a new player into a MapTool game, we always have to have a pre-game session where we have to get them to open up ports on their router and forward them to their wireless laptop or something similar. I haven't had to do that on WotC's VT. Thats a big bonus for me.
Maptools doesn't hold your hand, but it doesn't make it less 'user friendly'. Will WotC's VTT pull ahead of, say, Fantasy Grounds? Probably. But the MS Paint vs. Photoshop argument is wrong. I don't have to pay for MS Paint, and I do for WotCs VTT. If I'm going to 'scribble', I shouldn't have to pay to go to a less powerful program.
Comparisons between Paint and Photoshop are a little unfair. I think a better comparison would be the current version of GIMP compared to Photoshop. Certainly, GIMP is less powerful than Photoshop. However, for many, it contains the features that they need from Photoshop and is easier to use.
That's a plus. However, we're back to the "I don't have to pay for GIMP either" arguement. So let's compare GIMP with Photoshop Essentials. It's far cheaper than Photoshop and less advanced than GIMP but more accessible. The question is whether the price is worthwhile.
For some users, it will be. Ease of use is an important factor for many users and the easier it is, the better. Of course, a big part of it is the price. If it is included as part of the current subscription price for DDI, I certainly won't complain (especially if work is done to incorporate integration with the character builder and moster builder). I'd be getting more than what I'm currently getting out of my subscription. (I'd have to do some consideration if they raised the price because of this. It would depend on how much and whether I made good use of it.)
The question is one of value versus cost (as it so often is).
Here would be a couple of possibilities:
How about the ability to do "pick up" games over the VT? Online D&D Encounters anyone? RPGA events? Online game days? (Great if you don't have a game store near you.)
Gamer tutorials for players on certain strategies and tactics which would be useful in your game.
Forget online gaming! I've tied my computer to the big screen TV at my house. I could use that for the regular game session. On those occasions when I'm out of town, I could still play or DM with the whole group. (You can bet I'll be experimenting with this one!)
This could be a great tool to promote DDI and the game as a whole. For example, they could do a "Player's only" version of the tool available for free (publicizing Encounters games or DCI/RPGA games online). Then, in DDI, give a more fully featured version of the tool that would allow integration with character builder, monster builder, compendium, etc. and even allow Dungeon adventures to be run from it (and, of course, custom adventures).
I think the potential is there for this to be a big benefit for WotC and the gaming community as a whole. Whether WotC will take advantage of that potential is another thing.
In reading this thread as it grows, there is one question that I am asking myself:
Should WotC try to compete directly with MapTool, or should it attempt to carve out its own space in the online VT market?? Personally, I think that a small set of developers will never be able to compete with an open-source community. They just can't put in the man hours to match. What WotC can do is to take advantage of the (as I see them doing eventually) integration of the CB, the MB, the Compendium and any other tools that they come up with with the VT.
For example (and this is a guess, and not based on anything that I have heard of recently), imagine if WotC comes out with an encounter builder where you can drag and drop monsters (from the MB) to make an encounter. Then, once that is done, you go to the VT and open/import/load/whatever that encounter. Tokens are automatically chosen and labelled with all the correct powers, etc. Then, take that and export it as a map, or integrtae it into your campaign.
In reading this thread as it grows, there is one question that I am asking myself:
Should WotC try to compete directly with MapTool, or should it attempt to carve out its own space in the online VT market?? Personally, I think that a small set of developers will never be able to compete with an open-source community. They just can't put in the man hours to match. What WotC can do is to take advantage of the (as I see them doing eventually) integration of the CB, the MB, the Compendium and any other tools that they come up with with the VT.
For example (and this is a guess, and not based on anything that I have heard of recently), imagine if WotC comes out with an encounter builder where you can drag and drop monsters (from the MB) to make an encounter. Then, once that is done, you go to the VT and open/import/load/whatever that encounter. Tokens are automatically chosen and labelled with all the correct powers, etc. Then, take that and export it as a map, or integrtae it into your campaign.
I will have to agree with you MB. I have been a Maptool user for several years and my campaigns are quite complicated in terms of macro programming. If WotC can create a virtual table that allows for integration with the character builder, encouter builder, and some sort of map builder (possibly even if WotC makes maps from their official adventures available as drag and drop into the VT) that would probably trump Maptool as my primary virtual table for DnD.
Maptool will remain king until that happens, if it happens.
DDI Subscriber from Nov. 2008 to Nov. 2010
Yes, I was an annual subscriber before the original CB ever even came out. That's how excited I was. Note past tense.
Check out my little DnD blog - http://ncdnd.blogspot.com/
In reading this thread as it grows, there is one question that I am asking myself:
Should WotC try to compete directly with MapTool, or should it attempt to carve out its own space in the online VT market?? Personally, I think that a small set of developers will never be able to compete with an open-source community. They just can't put in the man hours to match. What WotC can do is to take advantage of the (as I see them doing eventually) integration of the CB, the MB, the Compendium and any other tools that they come up with with the VT.
For example (and this is a guess, and not based on anything that I have heard of recently), imagine if WotC comes out with an encounter builder where you can drag and drop monsters (from the MB) to make an encounter. Then, once that is done, you go to the VT and open/import/load/whatever that encounter. Tokens are automatically chosen and labelled with all the correct powers, etc. Then, take that and export it as a map, or integrtae it into your campaign.
I have to disagree with some of your commentary.
First, I believe that the WotC VT could, conceivably, compete with MapTool. While I have heard a lot of people talking about MapTool, I haven't heard anyone here saying that they have coded MapTool. Generally, it is a small group working on the code for open-source projects also. These people tend to be doing it in their spare time and not as a full-time job.
However, I don't think that WotC VT should try to be MapTool. Instead, they should integrate with their other tools and push for a more user-friendly experience that is different than MapTool. MapTool is an established product. They'll win in a head to head battle of features. However, an integrated system means that WotC's VT could be much more as well as a promotional tool for them.
In reading this thread as it grows, there is one question that I am asking myself:
Should WotC try to compete directly with MapTool, or should it attempt to carve out its own space in the online VT market?? Personally, I think that a small set of developers will never be able to compete with an open-source community. They just can't put in the man hours to match. What WotC can do is to take advantage of the (as I see them doing eventually) integration of the CB, the MB, the Compendium and any other tools that they come up with with the VT.
For example (and this is a guess, and not based on anything that I have heard of recently), imagine if WotC comes out with an encounter builder where you can drag and drop monsters (from the MB) to make an encounter. Then, once that is done, you go to the VT and open/import/load/whatever that encounter. Tokens are automatically chosen and labelled with all the correct powers, etc. Then, take that and export it as a map, or integrtae it into your campaign.
I have to disagree with some of your commentary.
First, I believe that the WotC VT could, conceivably, compete with MapTool. While I have heard a lot of people talking about MapTool, I haven't heard anyone here saying that they have coded MapTool. Generally, it is a small group working on the code for open-source projects also. These people tend to be doing it in their spare time and not as a full-time job.
However, I don't think that WotC VT should try to be MapTool. Instead, they should integrate with their other tools and push for a more user-friendly experience that is different than MapTool. MapTool is an established product. They'll win in a head to head battle of features. However, an integrated system means that WotC's VT could be much more as well as a promotional tool for them.
I think that we are agreeing with each other. Perhaps I used compete directly wrongly. I used it as in "compete for the same group of people" and "have the same feature set, only better".
I think that we are agreeing with each other. Perhaps I used compete directly wrongly. I used it as in "compete for the same group of people" and "have the same feature set, only better".
While I certainly accept the overall concept, I think that WotC could have "the same feature set, only better" by working on the same basic premise (i.e. create a virtual table) and integrating it with their other products with a simpler interface. I think that, if they do this, they will compete for at least some of the same group of people.
In reading this thread as it grows, there is one question that I am asking myself:
Should WotC try to compete directly with MapTool, or should it attempt to carve out its own space in the online VT market?? Personally, I think that a small set of developers will never be able to compete with an open-source community. They just can't put in the man hours to match. What WotC can do is to take advantage of the (as I see them doing eventually) integration of the CB, the MB, the Compendium and any other tools that they come up with with the VT.
For example (and this is a guess, and not based on anything that I have heard of recently), imagine if WotC comes out with an encounter builder where you can drag and drop monsters (from the MB) to make an encounter. Then, once that is done, you go to the VT and open/import/load/whatever that encounter. Tokens are automatically chosen and labelled with all the correct powers, etc. Then, take that and export it as a map, or integrtae it into your campaign.
To be honest, this questions is a bit missleading from my point of view. Maptools is a free software, available to everyone willing to download it. WotC's VT on the other hand will most likely require some sort of payment from the user in order to be fully available. So there is not even a market on which they could compete with each other. Therefor the question which interests me the most is: "Will WotC's VT be worth it's fee and therefor have enough customers to provide a solid number of available games, to be attractive?" My guess is, it will be, as long as those features desired (import of PC's/NPC's/Maps...) make it into the VT, otherwise it might end up as yet another DDI tool, but not something people talk about when discussing online TT platforms. So far it seems like a solid tool, which is easy to use. This is a great advantage above other tools, not customised to D&D exclusively, but it will also be it's major problem, for i don't see as much room for customisation as other tools offer. So I guess it will be quite popular among those allready subscribing to DDI and all those that like easy access and mainstream rulesets.
D&D Outsider since Nov 18th 2010, if you wonder about the little red dragon, this one is dedicated to the great VT community.
@Kartesh - I'm confused by your comment about not having a market to compete. What makes you say that? Companies who offer a product at a fee compete with free products all the time. If a company can't compete with free, then they can't compete, period.
@Kartesh - I'm confused by your comment about not having a market to compete. What makes you say that?
Well my point is, Maptools isn't a profit oriented tool, as the VT will be. WotC has to convince customers to buy their product in order to compensate for the effort it took to develop it and the money needed to keep the platform running and up to date. The VT very much stands and falls depending on the numer of customers willing to use and pay for it, many users mean lots of available games, therefor the tool gets more attractive. It is like comparing Cinema with a selfmade home video, they don't compete directly with each other.
Edit: Maybe the meaning of "competition" isn't the same as in my native language, but for me it implies a struggel for dominace at some sector, between two competitors. For me, this is a on sided battle. WotC has to deliver the best possible tool and make sure people want to pay for it. None of this criteria works for maptools, therefor in my ounderstanding, they arent competing. They are adressing the same sort of users to some degree, but only one side has to make sure there is a "market" worth exploring in the first place. To make it a picture: Competition is like Thunderdome, two go in, only one comes out. This is more like a carshop trying to convince me not to get my minor repair done by a good friend for free, since they are professionals. There is no way my friend will compete with the shop to convince me.
D&D Outsider since Nov 18th 2010, if you wonder about the little red dragon, this one is dedicated to the great VT community.
