Seperation of church and state fluff and mechanics.
While it may be small to some people, discribing a magic missile as a beam of green light instead of blue orb really makes the characters mine, and really helps roleplaying (in this case, roleplaying green lantern), and opens up the game to for me to be far more creative then 3.5 ever allowed.
In 3.x you needed an entire feat to do that (Spell Thematics).
Must of missed that feat. Did it work for divine spells as well?
Still, Perhaps it was just the DM i had, or the lack of system mastery (i didn't play for very long), but i was excited when i was told "i could do anything" and then told that i couldn't be a fire-breathing marshmallow man, or couldn't play a guy with claws growing out of my hands. I was quite disappointed.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Seperation of church and state fluff and mechanics.
While it may be small to some people, discribing a magic missile as a beam of green light instead of blue orb really makes the characters mine, and really helps roleplaying (in this case, roleplaying green lantern), and opens up the game to for me to be far more creative then 3.5 ever allowed.
In 3.x you needed an entire feat to do that (Spell Thematics).
And in 2e, there was a spell for it: Sense Shifting.
As a DM, I'd allowed players to decide what their spell-effects looked like even back in the 1e days. It's really never been much of a stretch. Of course, in 4e it goes beyond cosmetic apearances. In AD&D a spell that created a patch of grease or oil would behave differently than one that created a patch of ice, because spells were adjucated based on what they said they did, not their mechanics (which were often lacking). The icy spell might cause a container of water to burst, for instance, while the oily one might make an area flamable - in 4e, they'd just knock you prone, create difficult terrain for a little while, and that's it, no extrapolation or sophomore physics.
Still, Perhaps it was just the DM i had, or the lack of system mastery (i didn't play for very long), but i was excited when i was told "i could do anything" and then told that i couldn't be a fire-breathing marshmallow man, or couldn't play a guy with claws growing out of my hands. I was quite disappointed.
Heh. You should have started with Hero System.
Fire Breathing Marshmallow Man? Wolverine clone? No problem.
Healing Surges - Or, "How to keep the DM from killing my character." Okay, it's not quite that bad. But still, 3.5 had potions and asked you to take a standard action to drink one and it provoked an attack of opportunity. Meaning you couldn't attack while drinking it and if you did so while something threatened you, they got a free hit.
I don't think you know how healing Surges work. They aren't "free action: heal". In combat, you have to use a Second wind, a standard action that is used once an encounter. Or, a leader could make you spend one. They might get to do that 3-4 times an encounter. For the entire party.
Still, Perhaps it was just the DM i had, or the lack of system mastery (i didn't play for very long), but i was excited when i was told "i could do anything" and then told that i couldn't be a fire-breathing marshmallow man, or couldn't play a guy with claws growing out of my hands. I was quite disappointed.
Heh. You should have started with Hero System.
Fire Breathing Marshmallow Man? Wolverine clone? No problem.
Havn't had a problem in 4e either.
Well except for my nightcrawler clone. I havn't found a good way to get an at-will moderate distance teleport. Though a swordmage avenger comes close, and i can just pick any race to be blue, but it lacks the stealth i want.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Healing Surges - Or, "How to keep the DM from killing my character." Okay, it's not quite that bad. But still, 3.5 had potions and asked you to take a standard action to drink one and it provoked an attack of opportunity. Meaning you couldn't attack while drinking it and if you did so while something threatened you, they got a free hit.
I don't think you know how healing Surges work. They aren't "free action: heal". In combat, you have to use a Second wind, a standard action that is used once an encounter. Or, a leader could make you spend one. They might get to do that 3-4 times an encounter. For the entire party.
Well, potion use is a minor actgion that does not provoke in 4E, so far as I can tell.
What I found a bit odd about healing surgres was the ability to bring characters back from far in the negatives to "0+surge+leader's bonuses" in hit points. It is extremely good game design in making encounters a lot more fun but does seem to break the suspension of disbelief; in this sense 4E is geared for combat over many levels (i.e. it not being surprising that players survive for long periods). This has it's pluses and minuses but definitely puts a unique feel on the game (sand not a bad one, in my opinion, no system does high fantasy hero as well).
I play both. I'll dissect the argument from the two big perspectives.
Players From a player standpoint the games should be similar. Really, the games play fairly similar, as they're both D&D and have most of the same strengths and weaknesses. If you have all new players 4e might be easier as they can get the official Character Builder. However, there are tools for Pathfinder as well such as the Excel-based Heroforge and Hero Lab's tools. Established players might have a library of books to draw from when making characters, that might push them one way or another. However, new players might appreciate the cheaper up-front cost of Pathfinder, given 90% of the rules are available for free online and there are cheap official PDFs available off the publisher's website.
4e is a much more living game, with monthly new products and new rules options. With 3.5e dead and Paizo being a much smaller company, the amount of content for Pathfinder should be smaller. 4e has more feats and "spells" that 3.5 and more are released constantly. With Pathfinder, if you limit classes and races, you greatly limit the amount of content you might have to learn.
DMing This is a little trickier. 4e is much easier to run and manage. But encounters can still be a bear to plan, as you have to balance multiple monsters and add terrain for interesting fights. Every combat just has to be interesting, making it a little trickier. And DMs generally have to run multiple monsters at once meaning more bookkeeping and longer DM turns. But with Pathfinder, making NPCs is harder and longer and the rules require much more memorization. There's also less room for reskinning and more to consider when customizing.
Given you're running a 3e adventure path, many of the problems with 3e/Pathfinder (long prep time) are diminished. Updating to Pathfinder really often amounts to using their monster book (or the aforementioned website) or adding feats to NPCs. Much less work than changing every monster and DC to 4e, and likely radically altering every fight to add more creatures and terrain.
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?
Seperation of church and state fluff and mechanics.
While it may be small to some people, discribing a magic missile as a beam of green light instead of blue orb really makes the characters mine, and really helps roleplaying (in this case, roleplaying green lantern), and opens up the game to for me to be far more creative then 3.5 ever allowed.
Actually that is part of 3e - there was a specific rule allowing you to reflavour spells.
The worst part of 4e is people trying to pass off their reflavouring as part of the official rules - yes my "dagger" actually has the stats of a full blade but heh it is just to help my role playing dude.
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Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012
DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour
"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
I'll not weigh in on this subject too heavily, mostly because I blame Monte Cook for everything I hated about 3.x and his reek is all over Pathfinder.
Why?
The elegant answer to this question would be to link the interview he did around 3.5's release on gamingreport.com...but I can no longer find the interview because the site is now defunct.
Since there is no more hard evidence to back up my claims, I am forced to withdraw my statement.
But on a personal note, #$& that guy....right in his ear.
Magic also has a concept of "Timmy cards." These are cards that look cool, but aren't actually that great in the game. The purpose of such cards is to reward people for really mastering the game, and making players feel smart when they've figured out that one card is better than the other. While D&D doesn't exactly do that, it is true that certain game choices are deliberately better than others.
Toughness, for example, has its uses, but in most cases it's not the best choice of feat. If you can use martial weapons, a longsword is better than many other one-handed weapons. And so on -- there are many other, far more intricate examples. (Arguably, this kind of thing has always existed in D&D. Mostly, we just made sure that we didn't design it away -- we wanted to reward mastery of the game.)
Seperation of church and state fluff and mechanics.
While it may be small to some people, discribing a magic missile as a beam of green light instead of blue orb really makes the characters mine, and really helps roleplaying (in this case, roleplaying green lantern), and opens up the game to for me to be far more creative then 3.5 ever allowed.
Actually that is part of 3e - there was a specific rule allowing you to reflavour spells.
Which rule was that? The only one I can recall (Arcane Admixture, I think it was) required a feat expenditure for you to do it.
The worst part of 4e is people trying to pass off their reflavouring as part of the official rules - yes my "dagger" actually has the stats of a full blade but heh it is just to help my role playing dude.
What's wrong with that? If you want to say a fullblade is a serratted poisoned dagger (which explains the damage difference), wielded by a character with a knife-fighting style that requires a free hand for balance and 2-handed strikes (which explains the two-handed use required by the fullblade), I don't see anything wrong with that.
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin." NPC: "Really?" Fighter: "Yes." NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?" Fighter: "I do." NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?" Fighter: "What?" NPC: "I don't know what it means either." Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do." NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics." Fighter: "These what?" NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
