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3 years ago ::
Nov 08, 2010 - 2:05PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2008
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The Gamma World rules state (paraphrasing):
1) Players gain the overcharge bonus from their primary origin as long as the origin and the power match.
2) Players gain all the traits of both origins.
Many people have been debating these rules stating one of several possiblities:
1) Only the overcharge bonus from your primary origin apply (IE: +2 Dark overcharge).
2) The overcharge bonus gets +2 for rule 1 and +2 for rule 2 for primary origins only (IE: +4 Dark overcharge).
3) If Enhanced Human is your secondary origin, you gain the +2 bonus to all since it is untyped from rule 2 above (IE: +4 Dark, +2 Bio, +2 Psi overcharge).
4) If Enhanced Human is your secondary origin, you gain the +2 bonus to all since it is untyped and you gain the bonuses from rules 1 and 2 (IE: +6 Dark, +2 Bio, +2 Psi overcharge).
We need a clear, straight answer as to what the rules are talking about here.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 09, 2010 - 2:44PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 22, 2007
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The rules are very clear. You gain +2 to overcharge on your primary p.34. You gain all traits of both origins, which give you another +2 to primary overcharge and a +2 to secondary overcharge. PSH's, being a secondary origin, give a blanket +2 to all over charge, actually giving them a wonderful +6 to primary overcharge. PSH's are awesome!
None of these bonuses are out of line with rules wording or intent.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 08, 2010 - 12:19PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2007
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Wait... I"m not sure I understand why you get to double your +2 from your primary origin... I assumed when it said you get all traits from both origins it was just saying basically "don't forget to take all of these traits!" not "take that trait again because we mentioned it earlier! (I've also assumed since it says that you get +2 from your primary that the implicit meaning was that you DON'T get it from your secondary origin, ie, this was an exception to the "all traits" rule).
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2 years ago ::
Dec 13, 2010 - 5:15PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 22, 2007
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By raw, page 34, you gain a +2 to your primary origin. By raw in traits, you get +2 overcharge to a power from your origin. You get two origins, one primary, one secondary. Your primary origin gets a +2 from page 34. You also gets +2 from traits of the primary. You secondary also has a +2 overcharge to a power.
Here is the break down:
Primary and secondary origin power different, +4 primary over charge, +2 secondary overcharge
Primary and secondary origin power the same, +6 primary overcharge
Primary origin power with secondary human, +6 primary, +2 all other overcharge
You can assume all you want about the rules, but the above is rules as written. How you want to play it in your own game is your business.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2010 - 7:56AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2007
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Seems like this could have been written more clearly (ie mentioning that bonuses stack etc...).
Well thanks for the very clear breakdown, I'm still not sure if thats the way it's supposed to work but you are correct that if you just follow the rules as written with no interpretation that is the result.
I may try contacting customer service just to get this totally clear.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2010 - 10:01PM
#6
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You can assume all you want about the rules, but the above is rules as written. How you want to play it in your own game is your business.
I don't think it's a matter of assuming what one wants about the rules, they are just awkwardly written and there's no fleshed out sample character to compare against. Prior to your last post I was under the impression it was ExcalibursZone's first option, only +2 to primary, since it seemed like it was the same +2 bonus. I get the feeling you're probably right about the rule, wish they would have written them half as clearly as you laid them out in just a few lines. Thanks.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2010 - 6:19AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2007
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Agreed, they are awkwardly written, and as you said, an example character would have been most helpful.
It's too bad because otherwise I actually think the Gamma World rules are reasonably well laid out (though to be fair as someone fairly familiar with 4E they might be easier to follow in most cases than they would be for someone newer to the system). But honestly I think in pretty much every game book like this there should be at least one fully created example character (ideally with notes on how everything was arrived at, or a step by step example of the creation of the character).
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2 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2011 - 11:28PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Feb 11, 2006
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There's RAW, and then there's hyper-RAW, which is where PeelSeelTwo is getting his tortured double bonus. Part of "reading as written" is considering context and formatting, rather than only reading the rules word-by-word.
(1) The text at issue is in a section called Traits. Thus, it's logical that all the rules in that paragraph logically correspond to the traits section of the origins. A blanket +2 bonus would not come from a trait, and therefore wouldn't be in that paragraph.
(2) The sentence at issue comes after a sentence describing the first trait for every origin, the Mutant Type. Thus, it's logical that the second sentence refers to the first.
(3) The sentence about gaining the traits from both your origins comes after a sentence describing the traits other than Mutant Type. Thus, it's logical that the second sentence refers to those additional traits rather than all the traits.
(4) Think about the words that aren't there. Wouldn't it make sense for a sentence describing a +2 bonus above and beyond the traits to include the word "extra" or "additional"?
(5) Better yet, why have two separate +2 bonuses if they're both determined from the same trait? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a +4 bonus from the primary origin and a +2 bonus from the secondary origin?
I agree that the rules aren't 100% clear, but some reading comprehension goes a long way.
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2 years ago ::
May 19, 2011 - 10:10PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 20, 2007
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Look at any origin description, under TRAITS.
First line is Mutant Type and gives the overcharge bonus.
Page 34 "USING CHARACTER ORIGINS", first item "Traits: Mutant type identifies...power source. +2 bonus to overcharge an Alpha with same power source as primary origin."
Following lines are traits with (Level X) after their name.
Page 31 "WHAT YOU GET AT 1ST LEVEL", first item "All the Level 1 traits from your primary and secondary origins."
You get the overcharge bonus from your Primary origin according to page 34.
You gain the (Level 1) traits from both origins according to page 31.
And Page 67 "OVERCHARGING ALPHA POWERS", last sentence "Your primary origin might give you a bonus to overcharging certain Alpha powers."
Now, what about Engineered Humans?
Page 30 "If your second roll matches your first roll, then your second origin is Engineered Human."
Page 56 "ENGINEERED HUMAN TRAITS" "no power source, +2 to all overcharge."
HOWEVER...
Page 57 "WHAT IS HUMAN?" "...but that doesn't mean you can't have a second origin..." "Inventor:Your second origin..."
I propose that page 30 is a typo and should read:"If your second roll matches your first roll, then your primary origin is Engineered Human."
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