|
3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 3:12PM
#1
|
|
|
Overall I like the game but I was very disappointed in the weapons and gear, particularly the ridiculous ammo rules. What, nobody has pockets in the future? This is what I've brainstormed to remove the abstraction a little bit:
One handed light guns become light pistols. Light pistols use clips of 10 rounds each. It takes a minor action to replace a clip.
Two handed light guns become assault rifles. Assault rifles use magazines of 10 rounds each. They actually have more than 10 bullets, but they are assumed to be fired in short bursts. It's still considered a single attack on a single target. It takes a minor action to replace a magazine.
One handed heavy guns become heavy pistols. Heavy pistols also use clips of 10 rounds.
Two handed heavy guns become shotguns. They are assumed to be using slugs or a small spread area, so that it's still one attack on one target. Shotguns hold 5 rounds but do not use clips or magazines. It takes a minor action to load a single new round into a shotgun.
Each of the four types of weapons uses different rounds.
What do you think?
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 3:45PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2010
|
I think it's stupid, and you really missed the point behind the abstraction.
Not to mention the game balance.
But if you like tracking such detailed minutae, go for it. While you're busy counting bullets, I'll finish a second encounter.
I expect you want people to track ammo for their non-gun ranged weapons too.
AlexandraErin: If last season was any indication, I think Encounters is pretty much the elemental opposite of "organized" play!
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 4:02PM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2008
|
If you don't like the fact that "you have ammo or you don't" rule, then just let people keep track of ammo in a generic sense.
This way, you get the "I have 10 rounds of ammo" feature but you don't have to keep track of every type of bullet, rocket, arrow, bolt, shuriken, stone, coin, or whatnot during the game.
In my game, one of my players has one of those toy disc guns that was modified to shoot sharpened quarters. Quarters that he found in the parking meter club that he uses for melee.
In your system, how can you have a gun like that without going through the rigamarole of taking into account a player's imagination and it's effect on the game?
You can't. I don't suggest you go backwards and add that level of detail to your game, but instead just hand out a card that says "AMMO" on it (or poker chips, or M&Ms...well, then players would be eating their bullets...). Keep it generic but just allow for players to find ammo. They have ammo if it's recorded and they keep track of how much they're using so long as they have some way to represent their remaining stores.
I would go the card route. Just get a bunch of business card printer sheets, print "AMMO" 4 - 5 times on each one (40 - 50 ammo entries on a standard avery business card sheet), punch out the ammo cards, cut them into their individual ammo entries, and hand them out.
This will give a tactile feeling to the game, but it's going to slow combat down a bit as well as finding ammo (ancient junk table). Do they get 1? 2? 10? 50? Be prepared to do a lot of cutting, printing and handing out of ammo cards or waiting for players to write it down...then the'll forget to mark off their ammo. At least with the cards, you can physically take ammo from them as they use it.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 7:00PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
I don't think tracking every round is that time consuming or a bad idea. go for it. I decided for a modified house rule on the abstract ammo rule. I have players track extra ammo abstractly, for example a player would have ammo x 1 on the gear sheet. If they conserve ammo and only shoot once an encounter they retain ammo. If they shoot more than once an encounter then they loose all thier ammo. If they find extra ammo during an adventure or bargain for ammo in a settlement then they mark the extra ammo as in, ammo x2. If a character is lucky they can stock up on ammo like, ammo x 3 or ammo x 4. A player knows for each extra ammo they have an encounter they can fire as often as they wish without having to worry about running out of ammo. Anyway we like the rule. I like the abstract rule, and feel the need to limit ammo in a post-apocolyptic settings. But sometimes it's fun to just blast mutant monsters with fire arms.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 7:54PM
#5
|
|
|
One handed light guns become light pistols.
While I see what you are attempting, I don't see what renaming the categories accomplished. Your just as capable of saying "this category has this many shots and takes this long to reload" without renaming it needlessly.
While you're busy counting bullets, I'll finish a second encounter.
In 25+ years of gaming I've never seen a significant time savings from discarding or including ammunition rules. Seriously, how long does it take for somebody to mark one thing on their character sheet while the GM is handling other people's actions? Or for the GM to say "you find 30 bullets and 2 cannon shells with the loot" and then let the players fight over it while throwing down the map for the next encounter? That being said, I overall like the abstraction system in GW and wouldn't use the OPs, simply because one of my companions at the last game was firing cans of spam at the enemy (and at one desperate point, parts of a swarm PC that got to close) and that's just plain groovy.
they find extra ammo during an adventure or bargain for ammo in a settlement then they mark the extra ammo as in, ammo x2.
Now this is a system I can get behind. If the guy with the stale M&M firing shotgun finds a few bags in an old vending machine, it makes perfect sense he now can go full throttle for an extra encounter or so. Abstract recharges. And this wouldn't change anything happening during an encounter since the normal rules are applying there... It might even encourage people to pay attention to their environment more, looking for potential reloads.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 8:02PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2008
|
I don't think tracking every round is that time consuming or a bad idea. go for it. I decided for a modified house rule on the abstract ammo rule. I have players track extra ammo abstractly, for example a player would have ammo x 1 on the gear sheet. If they conserve ammo and only shoot once an encounter they retain ammo. If they shoot more than once an encounter then they loose all thier ammo. If they find extra ammo during an adventure or bargain for ammo in a settlement then they mark the extra ammo as in, ammo x2. If a character is lucky they can stock up on ammo like, ammo x 3 or ammo x 4. A player knows for each extra ammo they have an encounter they can fire as often as they wish without having to worry about running out of ammo. Anyway we like the rule. I like the abstract rule, and feel the need to limit ammo in a post-apocolyptic settings. But sometimes it's fun to just blast mutant monsters with fire arms.
This could also work with the card system. "You found ammo!" (Imagine AOL's "You've Got Mail!" coming from an Android...heh) then you give the player an AMMO card.
Whenever that player fires his gun more than 1 time in an encounter, he gives up an ammo card. If he has more cards then he still has ammo, but you now have an easy way to represent ammo in the game that supports what sirkaikillah is talking about with the tactile feel of what I like to strive for in games.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 8:26PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Mar 14, 2009
|
The Ammo rules as written work just fine. If you want to count bullets & biscuits in your games, knock yourself out. As for me and my mutants, we'll use the RAW.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 9:42PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
The Ammo rules as written work just fine. If you want to count bullets & biscuits in your games, knock yourself out. As for me and my mutants, we'll use the RAW.
Yep each to his own. The wonderful thing about pen and paper Rpgs, is they are flexible and can be tweaked to fit the gaming needs of individual gaming groups.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 08, 2010 - 8:02AM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2008
|
One thing about ammo that I think a lot of folks miss is that, from the time you decide to use ammo twice, you really should get the most out of your investment and use it every round thereafter.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 08, 2010 - 9:30AM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2003
|
I don't think tracking every round is that time consuming or a bad idea. go for it. I decided for a modified house rule on the abstract ammo rule. I have players track extra ammo abstractly, for example a player would have ammo x 1 on the gear sheet. If they conserve ammo and only shoot once an encounter they retain ammo. If they shoot more than once an encounter then they loose all thier ammo. If they find extra ammo during an adventure or bargain for ammo in a settlement then they mark the extra ammo as in, ammo x2. If a character is lucky they can stock up on ammo like, ammo x 3 or ammo x 4. A player knows for each extra ammo they have an encounter they can fire as often as they wish without having to worry about running out of ammo. Anyway we like the rule. I like the abstract rule, and feel the need to limit ammo in a post-apocolyptic settings. But sometimes it's fun to just blast mutant monsters with fire arms.
This could also work with the card system. "You found ammo!" (Imagine AOL's "You've Got Mail!" coming from an Android...heh) then you give the player an AMMO card.
Whenever that player fires his gun more than 1 time in an encounter, he gives up an ammo card. If he has more cards then he still has ammo, but you now have an easy way to represent ammo in the game that supports what sirkaikillah is talking about with the tactile feel of what I like to strive for in games.
Combining these two, how about each player with a gun has an AMMO Card, thar reads like
AMMO
Single Shot
Encounter
Free Action Personal
Effect: You may make a ranged basic attack or use a ranged attack power with the weapon keyword using a gun. Tap this card.
Special: If this card is tapped, you cannot make ranged basic attacks or use ranged attack powers with the weapon keyword using a gun.
Keep Firing!
Enconter
Free Action Personal
Effect: You may make ranged basic attacks or use ranged attack powers with the weapon keyword using guns until the end of the encounter. Tap this card, and turn over this card at the end of the encounter.
Special: You may use this power if this card is already tapped from using Single Shot.
On the back, the card would simply read
OUT OF AMMO
Effect: You cannot make ranged basic attacks or use ranged attack powers with the weapon keyword using a gun. Do not ready this card at the end of an encounter.
Special: Discard an EXTRA AMMO card to turn this card over and ready it.
Then, you could give out EXTRA AMMO cards as loot.
|
|
|
