|
3 years ago ::
Nov 10, 2010 - 4:12PM
#31
|
|
|
The real problem with that rule is that YOU NEVER RUN OUT OF AMMO.
The only way you can run out of ammo is if you roll a 1 and CHOOSE to run out.
Not only does it make everyone significantly more powerful (why use a ranged weapon when a gun is better in every way AND also has unlimited ammo?), it makes tracking ammo pointless, because you'll never run out!
Oh. You will. There are situations when it's either you hit now ot some (maybe you) dies. Then you WILL gladly take that reroll and voila - you are out! And finding ammo could be made very challenging.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 10, 2010 - 5:08PM
#32
|
Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
|
On game day, I explained the super-simple ammo rules, told the players they could each choose two weapons, the players looked at the difference between guns and ranged weapons, and none of them chose guns. Think about it, you can throw/twang an unlimitted number of knives or sawblades or arrows or ballbearings or whatever improvised 'ranged' weapon you have, or you can pop off a gun 1/encounter, then melee.
Maybe I should have let them pick three weapons?
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 10, 2010 - 7:23PM
#33
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
On game day, I explained the super-simple ammo rules, told the players they could each choose two weapons, the players looked at the difference between guns and ranged weapons, and none of them chose guns. Think about it, you can throw/twang an unlimitted number of knives or sawblades or arrows or ballbearings or whatever improvised 'ranged' weapon you have, or you can pop off a gun 1/encounter, then melee.
Maybe I should have let them pick three weapons?
That happened when our group made characters. The one exception was the mindbreaker/ kitty, who realized he had an awesome @-will ranged attack as a novice power, so any ranged weapon was a bonus, thus he chose a gun. I forsaw this happening, it was one of the reasons I altered the existing ammo rules to fit the type of GW game I wanted to play, guns and bullets are highhly desired.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 10, 2010 - 8:58PM
#34
|
Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
|
A gun might make a lot of sense for a hypercognitive, too. Novice power is encounter, uses a weapon, might as well get the most you can out of it...
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Nov 10, 2010 - 10:21PM
#35
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2010
|
I will have to do some work with mass to see about size. Any tips on where to start?
Start with densities.
Silver = 10.5
Palladium =12.02
Gold = 19.32
Platinum = 21.45
All these densities are grams per cubic centimeter, (which is 1000 cubic millimeters).
Now you just need to calculate the volume of each size coin you want.
Wikipedia will give you diameters and thicknesses of all the US coins, and many international ones.
Here's a cylinder solver: www.online-calculators.co.uk/volumetric/...
This will get you the volumes of various coins. Radius is half the diameter, height is the thickness.
This will get you a result in cubic millimeters.
Divide the result by 1000 (converting to cubic centimeters) and then multiply by density to get the weight of a coin that size, made of whatever.
For instance, a US quarter has a diameter of 24.26mm and thickness of 1.75mm
Diameter divided by 2 = 12.13 radius.
Put that in the cylinder solver (with height 1.75) gets us 809.2529499999994
We'll round that off to 809.253 cu mm
Divide by 1000 = 0.809253
Times 19.32 = 15.635 grams (rounded off)
Ta da. Rinse and repeat with each size coin.
Note that 15.635 grams is 0.502676923 troy ounces. Not too shabby.
That's 0.551 avoirdupois ounces.
This is a HEAVY coin... it's almost 3 times the weight of a normal quarter.
Note gold was traditionally alloyed down to 22kt (91.666% pure) when minting coins... the alloy added just enough durability that the coins wouldn't wear down significantly while in circulation. Modern golden Eagle coins use the same rate of alloying.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Gold_Eagl...
This adds 9.1% to the total weight of the item, to have the requisite amount of pure metal.
Thus a 10 gram gold coin would weigh 10.91 grams, the .91 being the alloy, but the coin has a 10 gram value. This part can be skipped for game purposes unless you really want it. If all the coins are equally alloyed, then the extra weight of alloy is meaningless.
0.502676923
AlexandraErin: If last season was any indication, I think Encounters is pretty much the elemental opposite of "organized" play!
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 12, 2010 - 8:20PM
#36
|
Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2010
|
The abstract ammo rules in the new GW do seem strange to me. Especially since all other RPGs I've every played, including prior GW editions, had the players keeping track of their ammo. I don't think I'll use the abstract ammo rules but will continue w/ what I'm used to. I've been playing w/ the same players for several years & I think the new GW ammo rules won't make much sense to them anyway.
I suppose that explains Omega Tech too. It seems after every use, there's a chance it has become depleted & useless (unless it can be salvaged). What's the in-game rationale behind that rule? Omega Tech is unreliable so every time you use it, the Tech might short out or malfunction so badly as to render it inert? I suppose just like the new ammo rules, power cells are irrelevant. The Omega Tech has enough power to use it until you fail a check & it's depleted?
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 12, 2010 - 10:26PM
#37
|
|
|
I've already had my players roll their characters and select weapons. As I expected, the ammo rule completely dissuaded them from selecting firearms. Guns are cool and ammo should be a somewhat rare commodity, so I've got a couple approachs in mind to feature firearms more prominently without completely tossing out the rules as written.
1. Let ammo stack. One "ammo" unit is either used up or retained as it suggests in the text, but they can carry reserve ammo if they've found or traded for it. Ammo then sort of becomes a daily + N power, N being how much else they have on them. I plan on giving the players ammo as loot every now and again whether they have a gun or not, might encourage them to trade some ancient junk for a firearm eventually. I do want to get the players to strategize about what supplies to gather before an expedition and give noncombat situations a spotlight semi-regularly.
2. Guns become melee weapons when empty. Gives firearms a little utility so the players don't feel that if they expend all their ammo they might as well give up on firearms. Like the idea of including descriptions of pistol whipping and swinging rifle butts, think it heightens the suspense.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 12, 2010 - 11:20PM
#38
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2010
|
The abstract ammo rules in the new GW do seem strange to me. Especially since all other RPGs I've every played, including prior GW editions, had the players keeping track of their ammo.
I've played a lot of RPGs where you DON'T track your ammo at all. Under that rationale, no game should be tracking ammo. (Spirit of the Century is awesome. The only way you can run out of ammo is to take a feat allowing you to. Of course, your One Last Shot Has To Count, and you get big bonuses on it, but then you're out). The problem with tracking ammo is that it's an incredibly detailed thing, and GW as a whole is incredibly abstract - including the equipment list. You need a specific list of guns, and then the correct amount of ammo for each, and the correct type of ammo for each. Not to mention extra rules for fire modes and more. M-16 has a switch. In one mode, it's semi-auto single shot. In the other, it fires 3 round bursts. So how do you track that for ammo? Does burst mode use 1 shot or 3? If it uses 3, how is it different from single shot mode? Now you need to make special rules for burst fire. Now Bob has an AK-47. Great. Except it can't use M-16 ammo, so yeah. It's also fully automatic. What are the rules for THAT? The best part is how seemingly identical ammo isn't. .38 ACP and .380 ACP are completely different and incompatible bullets (but .38 Super Auto is the same as .38 ACP). The 9x18mm Makarov bullet is incompatible with 9x18mm Ultra despite both being 9x18mm. The GW equipment system is abstract. Counting bullets is not abstract, and thus is incompatible with the rules.
AlexandraErin: If last season was any indication, I think Encounters is pretty much the elemental opposite of "organized" play!
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 13, 2010 - 7:54AM
#39
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
The abstract ammo rules in the new GW do seem strange to me. Especially since all other RPGs I've every played, including prior GW editions, had the players keeping track of their ammo.
...
The GW equipment system is abstract. Counting bullets is not abstract, and thus is incompatible with the rules.
I like the the abstract rules for ammo as well. Actually I like the abstract rule a bit modified to satisfy our group's needs. But counting ammo does not have to be all that detailed and has been a standard for many rpgs for decades includinng DnD 4e. I can understand if someone does not like counting bullets, but counting ammo is far from incompatible with the rules of GW. The game is by far the most interpretive, open ended rpg I have seen in a long time.
|
|
|
|
2 years ago ::
Dec 13, 2010 - 9:17AM
#40
|
|
|
The other issue with tracking ammo specifically is that a basic attack is not "I shoot my gun at that guy once and expend exactly X bullets" as it might be portrayed in other games.
A basic attack is "Over the course of roughly 6 seconds, I take various shots, depending on my training and level of skill and concern for ammo conservation, based on the opportunities provided to me," exactly as it is for melee attacks - or really, any given power. One turn it might mean three quick, controlled bursts at a target ducking and weaving through cover... that does 12 damage. The next turn it might mean bracing on some sort of terrain and laying down a hail of full-auto fire... which also does 12 damage.
That said, I have also considered the idea of letting players "stack" ammo when they find it.
|
|
|
