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3 years ago ::
Nov 15, 2010 - 1:38PM
#421
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Not renewing a regularly renewed contract amounts to "pulling" it, come on.
Pulling a contract is cancelling it. Not renewing it equates to the existing contract being fulfilled and not wanting to move forward. The only thing that they really have in common with each other is that they ceased moving forward at that point.
But, given that they wanted to do 4E in-house, how much would it have really cost them to let a third party continue to offer (under license) 3.X tools?
Obviously enough that they did not want to pursue it any longer. There was likely minimal revenue coming in from it any longer, especially since it was a (an outdated) stand-alone product. Contracting out further support was likely a significant money sink that exceeded the budget, particularly since they were going in a new direction for digital 4E.
Whatever. It does not establish any pattern for future behavior or expectations of Wizards moving forward for the current digital service that they provide transitioning into 5E. To say that they will drop 4E support like they did for 3.5 is simply opinion and conjecture, not founded on any established pattern. It's a completely different situation, and a service is far removed from a stand-alone product.
I'll gladly eat my words if it happens, but it won't. But I can't prove that, just as much as anyone else can prove the converse.
I see your join date is 08. I'm not sure if you know about the history of WotC and D&D, but I suggest you read up on it by using the search at the top of the forums. The pattern is there for those of us that have been with WotC since their beginning...
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3 years ago ::
Nov 15, 2010 - 1:52PM
#422
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I see your join date is 08. I'm not sure if you know about the history of WotC and D&D, but I suggest you read up on it by using the search at the top of the forums. The pattern is there for those of us that have been with WotC since their beginning...
And your join date is 11/08. Bravo. Some people do create new accounts you know, for various reasons. And I've been following D&D since I started playing in 1978.
Moderated by
ORC_Wyvern
on Nov 15, 2010 - 02:09PM
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Default module =/= Core mechanic.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 15, 2010 - 2:07PM
#423
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Date Joined:
May 31, 2009
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Bitching about access to CB in places where there is no internet makes me laugh. There are books people, BOOKS.
Hell, the new essentials books are even nice and easy to carry around.
With this fact coupled with the fact that you can print characters sheets I don't see why CB would be required where you don't have internet since you probably don't have a printer there either.
I'm loving the change to CB so my friends and I don't have to carry around copies of our characters everywhere all the time. Then having to manually update them on each different PC and everything else was a pain. Now wherever we play we can just go online and print and not have to worry whether the powers, feats and items are all 100% correct.
To be completely honest the old CB was a resourse hungry crappily programmed disaster that took about 10X longer than it should have to load and update. It also was prone to hanging should, god forbid, you look at a number of feats that seemed to almost always freeze the program.
What all this bitching tells me is there were a lot of people who either pirated the CB or would pay every couple months when a book the wanted content from was being added to the CB. Now if you play in places without internet you may have to *gasp* buy some books.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 15, 2010 - 2:45PM
#424
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Offline as in where I used to play encounters, because yea, a game store that doesn't believe in internet access for customers... so yea a place where D&D is played, and previously character builders were used on laptops, products bought, will NOT be able to use the ONLINE ONLY character builder.
Warhammer Fantasy is all offline btw and not bad, for those looking for ways to spend the money you'll have when you don't buy wotc products anymore.
BTW: You don't need to print your character when you can export it to iplay4e and use it on your iphone using its own 3g connection. Oh wait I can't export anymore...
I don't like to wait around for an hour trying to find a feat because its in a book, when I'm at the table we play, we don't read the books. I don't like to spend my free time doing the math that the character builder did for me. Good for you if your have free time coming out of your ears and like to do math. I picked up 4e after skipping 3e because my life had to much crap and a paper and pencil rpg became to much hassle to prep before you even got to play, 4e with the tools from the community and the couple tools that wotc had made it faster and easier... now that's changed. Will I keep playing, we'll see? Will depend if they get the stupid thing to at least as functional before the end of my current sub.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 15, 2010 - 3:04PM
#425
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2010
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Bitching about access to CB in places where there is no internet makes me laugh. There are books people, BOOKS.
Hell, the new essentials books are even nice and easy to carry around.
With this fact coupled with the fact that you can print characters sheets I don't see why CB would be required where you don't have internet since you probably don't have a printer there either.
I'm loving the change to CB so my friends and I don't have to carry around copies of our characters everywhere all the time. Then having to manually update them on each different PC and everything else was a pain. Now wherever we play we can just go online and print and not have to worry whether the powers, feats and items are all 100% correct.
To be completely honest the old CB was a resourse hungry crappily programmed disaster that took about 10X longer than it should have to load and update. It also was prone to hanging should, god forbid, you look at a number of feats that seemed to almost always freeze the program.
What all this bitching tells me is there were a lot of people who either pirated the CB or would pay every couple months when a book the wanted content from was being added to the CB. Now if you play in places without internet you may have to *gasp* buy some books.
Bitching about people bitching and making unfounded assumptions about those people makes me laugh too... especially because if you've read ANY of the many threads on this subject (clearly you haven't), there are multiple posts about how this change will affect the way people prefer to play. Does it mean we can't possibly play at all ever? No, and that strawman has already been addressed. What it DOES mean is that the way some people like to play will be fundamentally changed by the requirement to be online.
I own a stack of about 20 books and I have more on the way in the mail. I pay my subscription, and the only time I quit was when I wasn't actively playing D&D. Now that I am playing, I am paying, because I find it more useful than not. I will continue to pay for the foreseeable future.
That doesn't mean I like the change, and it doesn't mean I shouldn't voice my opinion.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 15, 2010 - 4:22PM
#426
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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E-Tools.... Let us get this straight. E-Tools is wholely and completely owned by Wizards of the Coast, always has been. It was developed by Fluid ( www.fluidentertainment.com/) and Wizards together, the first example of their colaberation was a CD that was in the back of the 3.0 PHB's when 3rd edition first came out. It was limiting and had glaring errors, a patch was actually made for this, but most waited for the "Master Tools" that was supposed to follow. That never happened. E-Tools was released about 9 months later, give or take. It was, simply, unusable. Patches came afterward, but Fluid messed up. There was two different versions of the program, you see, and they came out with a patch for each. If you use the wrong patch, it broke the program, and everything needed uninstalled and cleared out of the registory before it could be re installed and the correct patch applied. They couldn't come out with a universal patch, and was unable to explain what was going on with the current ones. When refunds were demanded, and the progam's sales tanked, Wizards contacted Code Monkey Publishing ( www.codemonkeypublishing.biz) (CMP) and contracted them to fix 42 errors in E-Tools. They ended up, that first time, fixing over 200. After this, they were awarded the license and allowed to produce the data packs, which had to go through approval before released, for both E-Tools and their own program, an open sourced project called PC Gen. CMP still had problems with E-Tools, though. The Database was hardwired (Their words) and didn't allow for the changes needed for some of the rule additions that had come since the original release. (I think the CBC had a bit of this with the Hybrid rules and some of the essientials changes) They are working on a new project that was supposed to take over for E-Tools, one that could have also been adapted for the new edition. Wizards, though, let the license lapse after they started on the change over to the new edition. CMP tried to talk to Wizards about the renewal without knowing that it wasn't to be and wasn't informed that they would not get the renewal until about six months before the contract expired. Lousy handling by Wizards after all the good work CMP had done for them. Wizard's history with electronic aids is not stellar, so forgive us if we are scepticle about the impending change.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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3 years ago ::
Nov 16, 2010 - 3:10AM
#427
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2005
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Whatever. It does not establish any pattern for future behavior or expectations of Wizards moving forward for the current digital service that they provide transitioning into 5E. To say that they will drop 4E support like they did for 3.5 is simply opinion and conjecture, not founded on any established pattern. It's a completely different situation, and a service is far removed from a stand-alone product.
OK, yeah. If you say so.
I'll gladly eat my words if it happens, but it won't. But I can't prove that, just as much as anyone else can prove the converse.
Right. Hopefully we'll have forgotten all about it by then.
=======
Balesir
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3 years ago ::
Nov 16, 2010 - 6:18AM
#428
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2007
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I'm guessing that by the time 4e came out everyone who wanted the eTools already had a copy (dried up revenue stream). Companies are greedy (aren't we all?) and will act in their own best interest (within reason). They'll be able to figure out that for minimal cost (keeping the tools available) they get to keep a big fat revenue stream.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 16, 2010 - 7:56AM
#429
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An online only CB is like a car that will not drive on freeways (maybe a moped). Sure it still gets you places and functions quite well, but it is woefully inadequate for most people.
I lived 60 miles away from work and traveld that all via freeway (and toll). Imagine if Ford came to me and said, "Look, this car you are leasing is all well and good, but you might loan it to some one else to use once or twice. We are going to give you something better, a moped. Enjoy."
The new CB is a lateral move at best, but I see it mostly as a downgrade. The whole cloud business is terrible. I'm literally handing over my creative works, things that I may have spent months developing, straight to WotC and locking it on their servers in their format. Once that happens, I loose control of it and that is a risk that I am not willing to take. A txt or word document is forever. A file on the WotC cloud is for however long WotC feels like.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 16, 2010 - 8:14AM
#430
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2010
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the old cb wont help you anywhere there isnt power, so playing Dnd while camping i guess is out.
We play while camping, and we have power but no Internet access. And we do use CB while camping to play around with ideas. Oh well, I guess now we'll have to do something old fashioned like read on our iphones or watch movies on same. 
Or, you know, print out char sheets, and play manually. just be careful--for some reason, yelling about defeating evil overlords at 2AM makes forest rangers angry...
Of course, in boy scouts, back in my day, we were lucky to have a book, let alone a char sheet of any sort. we had to make characters uphill in the snow, both ways.../oldrant
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