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Nov 5, 2010 -- 1:50AM, arobicha wrote:

No no no.

What exactly are you "No no no"ing me for?



I simply said, that the most "portable" characterbuilding tool, usable at a PC, is the one, that i can use whereever i take my PC to and that I can use whereever i have access to a random PC and the internet.
Up until now, we had the first option of offline usage, from now on, we will only have the second one of online usage.

Nov 5, 2010 -- 1:50AM, arobicha wrote:

You're requesting they keep compiling and distributing their entire CB database, a redundancy that requires manpower to make, and then requesting online storage...  That's an entire different service which already exists, and it's called  Dropbox.

To make this one clear, i didnt request anything at all, i simply said, what i think, is one valid way to actually improve "portablility". If that means they have to keep doing what they did so far, that sounds only fair to me. I was sattisfied with the product as it was and so were many other users. If they want to change it, they have to make sure we stay sattisfied if they want us to be their customers. Who pays money for a product he doesnt want?

Nov 5, 2010 -- 1:50AM, arobicha wrote:

You're asking WotC to continue supporting a product which has proven to  be an inefficient use of their developers time, and has extremely low  potential for interaction between released toolsets.

Well they had enough "developers time" to maintain the old builder and develop this new onlinesystem in less than six month, seems like a lot of free workpower for me.
And what is this talk about "interaction"? There are no tools to interact with on the first place, as far as it concearns any use for the customer. If there will ever be a VTT to be released, that is the time i will be glad to have that sort of potential conectablility.
If they were able to maintain an offline tool up until now, and an online tool is very easy to maintain, then they shall do both at the same time if they want to have an online only product.
The last thing i want as a customer, is a product that looses functions that i wanted to have, in order to be compatible with something that doesnt exist yet.

Nov 5, 2010 -- 1:50AM, arobicha wrote:

If they were to  release a campaign management tool tomorrow that wants to access data  from the character builder, it presumes the DM has all the .dnd4e files  ready and available for use. You're thinking they're going to be hosting  these characters as .dnd4e files - they're more than likely not!  They're going to be in an indexed database. It's why they don't have  export available on launch.

So you dont know how they host their data, but you are sure it isnt the way required to make my idea an usable alternative at this time?
I dont expect them to have the product id like to see, ready for release, but not released yet to make me angry. All i say, is that it whould be possible to provide a product that combines what we had and what they want us to have, with little more effort than they allready invest now.
If this requires changes that are managable and they are willing to do it, they shall go ahead.
If they dont want to do the extra work, the least thing i expect as a customer is to maintain the "status quo" and not switch to a system that gives them more freedom and controll and leaves us with less quality and functionabilty.

Nov 5, 2010 -- 2:51AM, VisanidethDM wrote:

Nov 5, 2010 -- 1:57AM, Matthew wrote:

All I'm asking is;  What is the unambiguous benefit, for us the existing users to the Character Builder being exclusively online? 

I will be able to make Character Sheets from all of my office computers, instead of needing my laptop.

Yes you are. If you don't already have Silverlight installed you are going to need to download and install that. Then that Silverlight component is going to download and install an about 13MB large Character Builder application that is run inside your web browser according to Paolo

Nov 5, 2010 -- 1:13AM, Kartesh wrote:

Sorry to say this, but the one making no sense seems to be you.

There is no way, an online tool like this one will ever be more "portable" than an offline version of it.

You're not looking at it with a business perspective. A browser based application is infinitely more portable than an hefty download with limited monthly updates that, IIRC, doesn't even work on Mac.
There's no possible comparison.

Look at these boards. Now ask yourself how many of the people posting here had access to their CB while posting on these boards. All the people who posted messages from computers other than their home ones (or computers where they could install their own .exes) can, with the new tools, access the CB ANYTIME.

The only sensible complaint is that of those who complain their stores have no wifi, but that's not something WotC should take charge of.

The only thing you need to do, once you have downloaded and installed an offline CB on your PC, is to simply use it. If that PC is portable, so is the tool.

And that's why this solution improves portability.

Does the entirety of the CB userbase own a computer? Yes. 100% of the CB users have a computer.
Is each one of those computers a laptop? No. Quite likely far less than half the CB userbase uses a laptop.

If you still can't see how portability is exponentially increased I dunno what.

An online tool requires me to use a PC aswell, but it also requires an active connection to the internet. The only thing i dont have to do, is to install the tool itself. The moment i disconnect that PC or move somewhere without an internet connection, i can no longer use the tool.

True. Is this a relevant problem?
Let's analize it.

1) when are you connected to the net?

• at work
• at home
• in net cafes
• in most stores

2) when are you not connected to the net?

• while moving or traveling
• in isolated areas
• in stores with no wifi support

Conclusion: of all these places, where are you most likely to have the time to access the tools and modify character sheets?
Making characters on the sub is not a primary need for a RPG. Not a single cent or second should be wasted on working on that. There's simply no userbase for that. It's completely irrelevant.

You could argue that you could make characters while flying before. Now you can't anymore. You lost some versatility? Yes. It is a problem worth considering? No.
Once again, the only sensible issue is not having access to the CB at your LGS. A problem that isn't up WotC to fix.

And what do you want to tell me about the office workers? There was nothing that cept them from installing the CB and use it at their workingplace, unless their boss didnt allow it.

"Boss, can I install this gaming tool on my work computer?". Be serious, please.

Belive be, if he didnt want his men to use the offline CB at work, he sure as hell doesnt want them to waste time at work doing character creation online.

False. The vast majority of workplaces don't give admin passwords to workers (so they can't install anything); yet the majority of people wasting time on Youtube is workers. Besides, if you're right then what's the problem? You can't use it at work now. It's not like you could before.

If they want to produce something that is more portable than the old CB, i expect a tool that runs in offline and online mode, so basicly an offline CB that is able to save my data online so i can access it using an online interface, once i am no longer sitting at my local PC.

You're failing to see the power of portability.
With this system, you don't have a laptop or you don't want to take it around, you log on your pc, make your character, go to your friend, log in on his computer with your account, and you still have your character. You can go to a net cafe and retrain talents. You can scroll through powers during your coffee break.

Your argument is absolutely illogical. A web based tool is infinitely more portable that your laptop. As long as *someone* has a computer at the table, *everyone* has access to their characters.

Nov 5, 2010 -- 2:58AM, Cathak wrote:

Nov 5, 2010 -- 2:51AM, VisanidethDM wrote:

Nov 5, 2010 -- 1:57AM, Matthew wrote:

All I'm asking is;  What is the unambiguous benefit, for us the existing users to the Character Builder being exclusively online? 

Once again, Internet is everywhere these days. If you want to have internet where there's no internet, you can achieve that. Expecting WotC to modify their business plan to accomodate for something that is entirely indipendent from them (ie your access to the net) because at some point the tools worked without requiring internet is unreasonable.

Perhaps where you are, lucky person!

Once again, not WotC's problem. If they find out that people unsubscribes to DDI because they have very limited access to the web, they'll consider the option of improving offline portability.

But the entire DDI package is based on access to the net. It would help the discussion if someone started citing situations where internet isn't accessible and using the CB is needed. The only sensible example so far is stores, and that is something the storekeeper can solve at zero cost. Heck, as long as he has a printer and a computer (99% of gaming stores do, for sure) you don't even need wifi. And every store has a computer and internet. EVERY SINGLE ONE. If it doesn't, it's not WotC's problem; they need to plan on the majority of users.


Can you please cite a single situation where it would have been sensible to expect being able to use the CB and that won't be possible anymore with the new tools?