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Switch to Forum Live View And what was the reason that the two different card decks have the same back again?
3 years ago  ::  Oct 26, 2010 - 10:24AM #31
Tony_Vargas
Date Joined: Sep 26, 2001
Posts: 10,732

Oct 26, 2010 -- 3:15AM, Talladega wrote:

Short answer: Cost

Long answer: The project manager dropped the ball, just like they did with the box size, character sheets, and rule book.


I suspect the digest-size softbound rulebook is a broader directive, since D&D in general was going to that.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 26, 2010 - 3:43PM #32
hcotterson
Date Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 28

Oct 26, 2010 -- 3:15AM, Talladega wrote:

Short answer: Cost

Long answer: The project manager dropped the ball, just like they did with the box size, character sheets, and rule book.

Game: Kudos for the most part. It's fun and a excellent gateway to 4e D&D as intended 

Packaging: Less than optimal. In fact rather piss poor when you compare to other similar products.





I totally disagree. I mean, the card back thing is kinda stupid, they shoulda fixed that. But what was wrong with the sheets & rule book? I love the form factor on both, as well as the box. I thought I was going to get some floppy 8 1/2 x 11 rulebook. The digest-sized book was a pleasant surprise.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 26, 2010 - 4:16PM #33
patweb
Date Joined: Oct 3, 2005
Posts: 23
I think the main issue is that you can't store ENGLISH standard paper (8 1/2x 11) in the extra space in the box.  Once the USA embraces the A4 standard paper size this won't be as much of a problem :D.

Oct 26, 2010 -- 3:43PM, hcotterson wrote:

Oct 26, 2010 -- 3:15AM, Talladega wrote:

Short answer: Cost

Long answer: The project manager dropped the ball, just like they did with the box size, character sheets, and rule book.

Game: Kudos for the most part. It's fun and a excellent gateway to 4e D&D as intended 

Packaging: Less than optimal. In fact rather piss poor when you compare to other similar products.





I totally disagree. I mean, the card back thing is kinda stupid, they shoulda fixed that. But what was wrong with the sheets & rule book? I love the form factor on both, as well as the box. I thought I was going to get some floppy 8 1/2 x 11 rulebook. The digest-sized book was a pleasant surprise.




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3 years ago  ::  Oct 26, 2010 - 6:32PM #34
battles14
  • Part of the SOLUTION
Date Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Posts: 539

Oct 26, 2010 -- 4:16PM, patweb wrote:

I think the main issue is that you can't store ENGLISH standard paper (8 1/2x 11) in the extra space in the box.  Once the USA embraces the A4 standard paper size this won't be as much of a problem :D.


You know, I noticed that, and it is kind of a pain.

As far as the card protectors go, they're just a good idea in general. And I took others' suggestions and got green and orange sleeves. They look sweet.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2010 - 2:28AM #35
Palmerkun
Date Joined: Aug 31, 2010
Posts: 705

Oct 26, 2010 -- 4:16PM, patweb wrote:

I think the main issue is that you can't store ENGLISH standard paper (8 1/2x 11) in the extra space in the box.  Once the USA embraces the A4 standard paper size this won't be as much of a problem :D.




Umm, A4 paper is 8.26 by 11.7 inches.
A shade narrower, but even LONGER.

A4 fits in the box even worse than US letter size paper.

What's your point?

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2010 - 6:08AM #36
ExcalibursZone
Date Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Posts: 378

Oct 27, 2010 -- 2:28AM, Palmerkun wrote:

Oct 26, 2010 -- 4:16PM, patweb wrote:

I think the main issue is that you can't store ENGLISH standard paper (8 1/2x 11) in the extra space in the box.  Once the USA embraces the A4 standard paper size this won't be as much of a problem :D.




Umm, A4 paper is 8.26 by 11.7 inches.
A shade narrower, but even LONGER.

A4 fits in the box even worse than US letter size paper.

What's your point?



Maybe they were able to fit the A4 in the box when put in sideways? heee

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2010 - 12:49PM #37
Serpine
Date Joined: Jul 7, 2008
Posts: 280

Oct 26, 2010 -- 4:16PM, patweb wrote:

But what was wrong with the sheets & rule book?




My issue with the sheets is there just isn't enough space to write all the power information, so the players have to scuffle over (likely) one book to verify what they can do.

The rule book though I do love: I wish the Essentials books took some lessons from it, as I find them to thick for comfort in digest scale and they have layouts that spread individual things over multiple pages to often. 

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2010 - 8:22PM #38
FrozenWastes
Date Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Posts: 870
Penny sleeves (cheap, all clear ones) will work fine for one of the two decks.  I bought a metallic purple set of sleeves for the other deck.
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3 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2010 - 9:03PM #39
Talladega
Date Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Posts: 56

My issue with the sheets is there just isn't enough space to write all  the power information, so the players have to scuffle over (likely) one  book to verify what they can do.




Pretty much sums up that pont.  While I applaud the effort of a simplified, helpful character sheet, it's actual usefulness for play is less than ideal.  A better choice would have been to provide a filled out sample of a real character sheet, and provide those rather than a few, fairly useless back to back half-sheets.

Rulebook: I don't like the layout. There is pleny of wasted space on pages. Personally, I think they made it smaller for two reasons;

1. To fit in the box
2. To mask how little information it actually contains.

I don't have an issue with less information per se, as this is a gateway product and the rules need to be somewhat lighter.  However, I would have prefered a full size, but thinner rule blook. They could have then put in a full size, useful character sheet similar to that found in the back of the 4e PHB.

Box choice: They used a boardgame style rather than rpg style. Why? I figure because Castle Ravenloft and the upcoming Wrath of Ashardalon were packaged that way. It wouldn't surpise me if the PM for all three was the same. Everything about the packaging screams to me of someone more used to packaging a boardgame rather than a rpg. The oversight of the cardbacks makes more sense when looked at it ths way, at least to me.  If GW was a boardgame, I wouldn't have such an issue with the packaging and contents, but it's not and I do.  

Ok, rant over. Didn't mean to, but the more I thought about it, the more it irked me. Having spent nearly ten years working in the industry and knowing how  game manufacturers operate and how certain decisions get made, I can be  rather opinionated when it comes to design choices.

Anyhow, end of the day, mine is just one opinion in this sea we call the interweb. Besides, it doesn't mean the game is any less fun.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2010 - 8:05PM #40
hcotterson
Date Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 28

Oct 27, 2010 -- 9:03PM, Talladega wrote:


2. To mask how little information it actually contains.




I don't know man, that's awfully conspiracy-theory-ish of you.

Anyway, why doesn't someone from WOTC come over and tell us? I'm not usually on any WOTC boards; do any of them comment in the forums?

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