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3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 4:00PM
#661
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2002
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And then we start seeing characters that either don't fit into an alignment neatly, or they're stereotypes. For instance apparently Chaotic Evil characters can never be helpful to anyone, even their Chaotic Evil masters.
Is that the CE character that the PHB recommends that you do not play because it disrupts the adventuring party and makes other players angry at you?
Or is that a hypothetical NPC character that the players will probably only encounter once? Because that is probably a good example of why evil never wins.
Neither, it's the "RAWR I'm a psychotic monster!" character that makes absolutely no sense, but is apparently an entire 1/5 of the current alignment system according to some people. Even someone who has a complete disregard for others can see them as useful tools and help them in the form of buffs, if only to keep them useful for longer.
Yes, the latest book/release that you don't like is a blatant attempt by Wizards of the Coast to make money off the fanbase. They all are. That's kinda the point of the Free Enterprise system, companies are in it to make money... Spoiler:
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You can't! I tried... and the next night masked men came into my house and beat me until I burned up my ranger character sheet and rolled a scout. They told me... if I ever thought of making a non-essential character that they would kill mitsy..... OH GOD THEY ARE COMING BACK AND ARE FORCING ME TO BUY HEROES OF SHADOWS! SOMEONE STOP THEM PLEASE!
Your DM is your friend. He's not trying to screw with you, or dick you around. Play your character how your character would act. Accept that your character won't always be able to do what he's best at, but also know that as a goddamn HERO, he's gonna try to do his best at what he can do.
Roleplay your goddamn character, make the decisions he would make, and roll appropriately. Everything will be fine.
But filling a post with vitriol, hate-filled comments, like "these people should be fired", swearing at us or other ambiguous members of the company - there really is no reason for that. Please share your feedback respectfully, and consider how you would share your ideas if this were a face to face conversation between real people, not faceless names on a screen.
If you see me posting in a thread about editions or Essentials (that isn't simply a rules thread or similar) remind me that I'm trying to stay away from them. (My blood pressure will thank us both.)
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3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 5:08PM
#662
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Neither, it's the "RAWR I'm a psychotic monster!" character that makes absolutely no sense, but is apparently an entire 1/5 of the current alignment system according to some people. Even someone who has a complete disregard for others can see them as useful tools and help them in the form of buffs, if only to keep them useful for longer.
I am not sure but complete disregard usually means that they do not see them as useful tools.
Why waste your time buffing some random loser when you can do it to yourself. If they die, who cares - there is always more minions around.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
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"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
Show
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 5:16PM
#663
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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I am not sure but complete disregard usually means that they do not see them as useful tools.
Why waste your time buffing some random loser when you can do it to yourself. If they die, who cares - there is always more minions around.
because you're using the random loser as the fall guy in case things go south. After all, just cause you're evil doesn't mean you don't have back up plans. And good guys love the whole, oh he forced me to do such and such I'm good forever line.
CE should not be chaotic stupid.
Characters currently:
Abscense makes the heart grow fonder but the characters disappear.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 5:38PM
#664
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If you want something a lot closer, stick to something specific.
"Paladins can only be LG."
So, something specific and comparable, related to race, would be along the lines of...
"Dwarves can only be LG."
"Elves can only be G."
"Halflings can only be Unaligned."
"Minotaur can only be E."
"Drow can only be CE."
Oh oh, let me try too!
"Paladins can only be LG."
"Dwarves can only drink beer."
"Elves can only dress in green."
"Halflings can only be vegetarians."
"Minotaur can only be played by munchkins."
"Drow can only be Spider worshipers."
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
Show
"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
Show
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 5:49PM
#665
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I am not sure but complete disregard usually means that they do not see them as useful tools.
Why waste your time buffing some random loser when you can do it to yourself. If they die, who cares - there is always more minions around.
because you're using the random loser as the fall guy in case things go south. After all, just cause you're evil doesn't mean you don't have back up plans. And good guys love the whole, oh he forced me to do such and such I'm good forever line.
CE should not be chaotic stupid.
So you want him to be CE and also not stupid?
Thats basically un-possible. If CE was so smart then Demons could have taken over the multiverse by now because infinite troops = win.
CE is your stereotypical Black Hat. His plan is to rip your head off. His backup plan is to pull your arm off and hit you with it.
Also Good is not stupid too. The difference between a Good man and an Evil one? The Good one stabs you in the front. "Oh yes, Mr Balor, I see that this random Dretch minion was the ringleader all the time...not!" Much Balor stomping insues.
If you want a smarter Bad Guy then make him Evil - CE is Evil with the breaks taken off.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
Show
"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
Show
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 5:50PM
#666
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Paladins can only be LG
Spiders can only be arachnids
monkeys can only be funny.
Drow can only wield twin scimitars.
why are we listing things?
I hope the cavalier gets an evil and c. evil option to go with the l. good and neutral, good, or l. good option.
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@Shasarak, so Lolth is stupid then? If CE has to be stupid LG does to right? So the LG paladin can't go killing boars in the evil king's forest, or if he does he goes and let's the nice sheriff arrest him without complaint, yes?
(also demons are very busy fighting each other, each demon lord doesn't want the other to rule, thus infinite troops are a major draw back. Which is why the sith decided just 2 lords was the way to go.)
Characters currently:
Abscense makes the heart grow fonder but the characters disappear.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 6:14PM
#667
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2010
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I don't understand how people equate "Only Dwarves can take this feat" to "Only LG characters can take this class." They're so removed from one another that saying "Well, you have one, why not the other?" doesn't really hold any water - the answer is 'because they're different', and insisting that they're not doesn't make any sense. They don't compare.
Yeah they do.
They both exist to give the gameworld flavor and for no reason other than that. In a fantasy setting honestly, there's no logical reason that a human couldn't be born with dwarven resilience or get trained by dwarves in how to use weapons. The only reason that you can't is entirely arbitrary because the rules writers wanted those things to be a special characteristic of dwarves and dwarves only.
Similarly, the paladin class has specific flavor attached and the prereqs exist to try to enforce that flavor.
Just think, there's a prerequisitie related to role-playing in a roleplaying game! *gasp*
Screw this roleplaying crap, if it doens't affect a dice roll, I don't care about it.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 6:17PM
#668
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@Shasarak, so Lolth is stupid then? If CE has to be stupid LG does to right? So the LG paladin can't go killing boars in the evil king's forest, or if he does he goes and let's the nice sheriff arrest him without complaint, yes?
(also demons are very busy fighting each other, each demon lord doesn't want the other to rule, thus infinite troops are a major draw back. Which is why the sith decided just 2 lords was the way to go.)
I would not say that to her face, but the short answer is yes.
The amount of infighting and back stabbing caused by Lolth is unbelievable - you should check out the War of the Spider Queen books. Chaos and Destruction, Baby!
As for the Sith, I always have seen them as LE (especially Palpatine and Vader) - but erachima would probably say that they were only causing Galaxy wide wars, genocide and general force choking for the good of the Jedi and they were generally misunderstood. Or not.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
Show
"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
Show
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 6:34PM
#669
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Why would I say that, Shas? It's obviously the evil bacterial infections that make them do it.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 07, 2010 - 7:05PM
#670
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Why would I say that, Shas? It's obviously the evil bacterial infections that make them do it.
Well, you say that there is no such thing as evil, right?
So it must be all bacterial infections otherwise thousands of years of philosophical and ethical debate in real life, would have discovered Evil and we can all relax and say "I knew it was not my fault that I killed all those people and dressed up in their underwear - I had the Evil bacterial infection. Turns out that if I had a course of antibiotics then I would have been totally fine and not homocidal at all"
I mean, if I gave you a couple of bullet points like:
Good: Freedom and kindness. Lawful Good: Civilization and order. Evil: Tyranny and hatred. Chaotic Evil: Entropy and destruction. Unaligned: Having no alignment; not taking a stand. Then that would be no good because I did not take into account where wife beating comes into the equation. Sigh.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
Show
"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
Show
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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