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3 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2010 - 6:52AM
#111
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Exactly. With every othe campaign setting. Every other book for that matter, you had to wait two weeks before you could use the tools for things in that book. there was no reason to suppose at the time that we would have to wait two (or more) months.
It's still an assumption though. And you know what they say about assumption and it's relations.
I must have missed the step between "having an eminently reasonable expectation" and "being an ass." But thanks.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2010 - 6:56AM
#112
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2001
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Exactly. With every othe campaign setting. Every other book for that matter, you had to wait two weeks before you could use the tools for things in that book. there was no reason to suppose at the time that we would have to wait two (or more) months.
It's still an assumption though. And you know what they say about assumption and it's relations.
I must have missed the step between "having an eminently reasonable expectation" and "being an ass." But thanks.
Sorry Mock - really not trying to be nasty in any way. Apologies if it came across that way.
I'm just trying to explain why I take this approach to book buying. To me it makes sense.
FWIW I also have friends who buy the books as soon as possible so they can read up on what a class/option can do before it becomes available in the CB (we play that all our characters HAVE to be built using the CB to ensure they are valid and the maths are right, plus we use the XML files to generate tokens for MapTool so we need them to be in CB). So there are good reasons to buy the books early of course.
Cheers!
Blakey
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3 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2010 - 7:01AM
#113
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
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I think that ti is perfectly reasonable for people to have had an expectation that the Character Builder and Monster Tool Builder would have been updated with the Dark Sun and Essentials stuff. WotC has, up to now, been very, very good in getting stuff in on time. Thus, due to the past history of updates, people were expecting the same behaviour, and were ruightfully annoyed that the update was not provided. After all, there is a saying that goes something like: "History is the best predictor of the future".
I think that it is also an interesting indication of just how successful the Character Builder has become.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2010 - 7:07AM
#114
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Just an observation:
It amazes me the number of people who say "I bought Dark Sun/Essentials books to run in a campaign where we use the CB to make our characters and I'm annoyed that I can't make my Dark Sun character because the book isn't supported in the CB yet."
You know exactly what the CB supports. It's not guess work. So wait until DS is supported in the CB before you spend money on the DS books!!!! It's not rocket science.
Except they did, indeed, know exactly what the CB supports. And by all prior evidence and the previous indications given by the company, new book content shows up in the CB the month after it comes out. Expecting that to remain true isn't blindly hoping and guessing, it is based completely on reasonable expectations supported by past performance!
Now, that doesn't mean WotC is absolutely bound to such a commitment - sometimes things go wrong (as, I imagine, was the case here). But I think its pretty understandable for folks to be frustrated when they've paid for a tool and content that they expected would work together smoothly, and instead find it will be several months before that is the case.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2010 - 7:09AM
#115
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Sorry Mock - really not trying to be nasty in any way. Apologies if it came across that way.
That's okay, I reacted a bit hastily there and read your post uncharitably. I just didn't think there's a strong basis for saying that the regular customers are to blame for their disappointment, but I did come back pretty snarky there. No hard feelings.
I think one of the other things about the books is that a lot of us like both - there are frequent comments that you don't need the books if you have DDI, but I bet that many subscribers still purchase both, and from the forum traffic everyone's always champing at the bit to see what's next. I mean, I dove on Heroes of the Fallen Lands the very day it hit early release, and I don't even really know why except I had to know what it containe! 
So we're used to getting the book early, waiting a couple weeks, and getting to play around with the options easily in the CB. It didn't happen this time, and people (myself included) are not happy about it. Now for something like TokenMaker (I'm Rumble over at the RPTools forums, BTW) I can see why you have to simply wait on it, of course.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2010 - 11:44AM
#116
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Personally I bought the Dark Sun books because I've been waiting since third ed for an updated version of the setting. I wanted to read the books. Our complaints are that DDI isn't performing to our wants. We all know that the updates are not guaranteed, but we are not happy with that, and we are letting them know that.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2010 - 11:55AM
#117
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Sorry Mock - really not trying to be nasty in any way. Apologies if it came across that way.
I'm just trying to explain why I take this approach to book buying. To me it makes sense.
FWIW I also have friends who buy the books as soon as possible so they can read up on what a class/option can do before it becomes available in the CB (we play that all our characters HAVE to be built using the CB to ensure they are valid and the maths are right, plus we use the XML files to generate tokens for MapTool so we need them to be in CB). So there are good reasons to buy the books early of course.
Cheers!
Blakey
That's fair enough but many of us have bought the books on a regular schedule for many years (I know I have!) and when the CB came out, we incorporated a 2 week or so delay for electronic content into character generation, adventure planning or whatever.
It's not unreasonable to then expect the same level of service for Dark Sun particularly. Essentials would have been nice as well but on the normal schedule that should have come out in the October update so we are less behind on that than on the DS stuff.
Now for something like TokenMaker (I'm Rumble over at the RPTools forums, BTW) I can see why you have to simply wait on it, of course.
Off topic - You're Rumble!? Love your Maptool framework. Good work 
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3 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2010 - 2:53PM
#118
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Off topic - You're Rumble!? Love your Maptool framework. Good work
Yep, that's me. Thanks! Always cool to get a compliment!
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3 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2010 - 12:52AM
#119
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Date Joined:
May 22, 2009
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Just an observation:
It amazes me the number of people who say "I bought Dark Sun/Essentials books to run in a campaign where we use the CB to make our characters and I'm annoyed that I can't make my Dark Sun character because the book isn't supported in the CB yet."
You know exactly what the CB supports. It's not guess work. So wait until DS is supported in the CB before you spend money on the DS books!!!! It's not rocket science.
Cheers
Blakey
Except that, Season 3 of Encounters is exclusively Essentials, and since you're supposed to be able to earn Renown Points for building a character with the Character Builder, the delay in including Essentials in CB is problematic (to put it mildly).
- Rico
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3 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2010 - 8:10AM
#120
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Just an observation:
It amazes me the number of people who say "I bought Dark Sun/Essentials books to run in a campaign where we use the CB to make our characters and I'm annoyed that I can't make my Dark Sun character because the book isn't supported in the CB yet."
You know exactly what the CB supports. It's not guess work. So wait until DS is supported in the CB before you spend money on the DS books!!!! It's not rocket science.
Cheers
Blakey
Except that, Season 3 of Encounters is exclusively Essentials, and since you're supposed to be able to earn Renown Points for building a character with the Character Builder, the delay in including Essentials in CB is problematic (to put it mildly).
The exact same thing could be said about Dark Sun in Season 2 and they never had the chance to use the Builder.
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