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3 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2010 - 1:04PM
#31
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To further the point of specific beats general; all includes Bio, Dark, & Psi, so could we conclude that the specificity of EH overcharge overrides page 34?
We need some official errata on this from WOTC.
Depends: It does trump the rule of matching power source (as EH has no power source), because it says it gives a bonus to multiple. It does not however beat the rule of only getting the overcharge bonus from your primary origin and only the primary origin; because it does not say anywhere in the book that EH's overcharge bonus applies weather or not it's secondary or primary. More powerful does not mean more specific.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2010 - 1:26PM
#32
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I just let EH characters get a +2 to all overcharge rolls and don't worry about RAW or a "right" or "wrong" way to do it.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2010 - 1:50PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Aug 14, 2005
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I just let EH characters get a +2 to all overcharge rolls and don't worry about RAW or a "right" or "wrong" way to do it.
I suspect thats what most people will end up doing, but some people love to argue about RAW :P
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3 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2010 - 2:14PM
#34
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I just let EH characters get a +2 to all overcharge rolls and don't worry about RAW or a "right" or "wrong" way to do it.
I suspect thats what most people will end up doing, but some people love to argue about RAW :P
To be fair the question was asked because of confusion from the RAW. When rules questions are asked you can only answer with RAW, as that is the base state (and there are to many GMs to cover every variant that will crop up). But we've covered what is RAW, so now is the time for house rule discussion. (Or for people to justify why their take of RAW is right and others are wrong)
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3 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2010 - 2:26PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Aug 14, 2005
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When rules questions are asked you can only answer with RAW, as that is the base state (and there are to many GMs to cover every variant that will crop up).
Oh I agree. For the most part. But people often talk about 'What is RAW' without often realizing or admitting that they are wrong. There are many, many cases in D&D where the rules are not clearly explained, and some people will argue until they are blue in the face that something is RAW, when it is in fact not RAW. And vice versa.
A good example is people who talk about how a given magical item must be equipped in a certain slot  There's no mention of it, and no rules saying why you couldn't, say, wear an amulet on your hands slot. Read the rules very carefully sometime, and you'll see what I mean. There are alot of rules that are 'assumed by implication' and people will talk about that til the cows come home.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2010 - 4:51PM
#36
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For me, now that I remember that there is more than one way to get an origin (letting players pick their origins), then it makes sense to give EHs a overcharge benefit of some sort.
On that note, I plan to run with random creation and thus render the issue moot for my games. ... for now.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2010 - 7:51PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2008
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Hey, just to note: The little blurb about overcharge rolls on pg 34 is worded quite specifically: "You gain a +2 bonus to overcharge rolls on Alpha powers that have the same power source as your primary origin."
Enhanced Human explicitly have no power source at all, and specifically give a +2 bonus to all overcharge rolls. If it were just based on your power source as pg 34 explains, Enhanced Humans would have all power sources to be RAW in that example, and in turn giving +2 to all power source overcharge rolls would make sense. With no power source, to follow the rule above on pg 34 an Enhanced Human would give a +2 bonus to no overcharge rolls. "No power source" is precisely the opposite of "all power sources".
Therefore, this meshes perfectly with the rules as written. As an Enhanced Human, you get a +2 bonus to your primary power source overcharge rolls, and a +2 bonus to all overcharge rolls. This makes for a total of +4 on your primary power source overcharge rolls.
It looks solid in terms of both RAW and RAI.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2010 - 8:57PM
#38
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Hey, just to note: The little blurb about overcharge rolls on pg 34 is worded quite specifically: "You gain a +2 bonus to overcharge rolls on Alpha powers that have the same power source as your primary origin."
Enhanced Human explicitly have no power source at all, and specifically give a +2 bonus to all overcharge rolls. If it were just based on your power source as pg 34 explains, Enhanced Humans would have all power sources to be RAW in that example, and in turn giving +2 to all power source overcharge rolls would make sense. With no power source, to follow the rule above on pg 34 an Enhanced Human would give a +2 bonus to no overcharge rolls. "No power source" is precisely the opposite of "all power sources".
Therefore, this meshes perfectly with the rules as written. As an Enhanced Human, you get a +2 bonus to your primary power source overcharge rolls, and a +2 bonus to all overcharge rolls. This makes for a total of +4 on your primary power source overcharge rolls.
It looks solid in terms of both RAW and RAI.
Going off the half statement before you bolded how do you arrive at +4? You are ignoring half the RAW statement your using to justify your point. Or do you think because each entry also says +2 to a power source (their own) that all characters get a +4? If this is the case, it's possible this is to allow origins down the road to give bonuses to power sources other than their own (dual power source origins if you will), but seems unlikely and unecesary break down. I think it's easier to interpret (and that is what we are doing here) this as an example as specific (EH's overcharge entry) trumping general (the blanket statement on page thirty four). This results in a primary origin EH (through a variant or houserule) to get +2 to all.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2010 - 10:15PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2008
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Hey, just to note: The little blurb about overcharge rolls on pg 34 is worded quite specifically: "You gain a +2 bonus to overcharge rolls on Alpha powers that have the same power source as your primary origin."
Enhanced Human explicitly have no power source at all, and specifically give a +2 bonus to all overcharge rolls. If it were just based on your power source as pg 34 explains, Enhanced Humans would have all power sources to be RAW in that example, and in turn giving +2 to all power source overcharge rolls would make sense. With no power source, to follow the rule above on pg 34 an Enhanced Human would give a +2 bonus to no overcharge rolls. "No power source" is precisely the opposite of "all power sources".
Therefore, this meshes perfectly with the rules as written. As an Enhanced Human, you get a +2 bonus to your primary power source overcharge rolls, and a +2 bonus to all overcharge rolls. This makes for a total of +4 on your primary power source overcharge rolls.
It looks solid in terms of both RAW and RAI.
Going off the half statement before you bolded how do you arrive at +4? You are ignoring half the RAW statement your using to justify your point. Or do you think because each entry also says +2 to a power source (their own) that all characters get a +4? If this is the case, it's possible this is to allow origins down the road to give bonuses to power sources other than their own (dual power source origins if you will), but seems unlikely and unecesary break down. I think it's easier to interpret (and that is what we are doing here) this as an example as specific (EH's overcharge entry) trumping general (the blanket statement on page thirty four). This results in a primary origin EH (through a variant or houserule) to get +2 to all.
No, only Enhanced Humans. Enhanced Humans are ALWAYS a secondary origin, explicitly. Enhanced Humans have NO power source, explicitly. The overcharge bonus clarified on pg 34 is ONLY applicable to your primary origin, and ALWAYS based off said primary origin's power source.
Therefore, true to an actual exception-based design scheme, Enhanced Humans, being the exception to the rule that they can never be a primary origin explicitly per their own rules text, and the exception to the template of having a power source (they have none, explicitly), but having an explicit +2 to all overcharge rolls, are the exception to the rule. They, and they alone, have a blanket +2 to all overcharge rolls that are above and beyond that mentioned on pg 34. Explicitly. Nothing in their text leaves an opening for them later being a primary origin, as there is only one way per the rules to become an Enhanced Human (rolling the same origin twice, EH becomes your secondary).
Nowhere did I say that any other type of character gets both overcharge bonuses.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2010 - 11:44PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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Enhanced Humans are ALWAYS a secondary origin, explicitly.
Nope, not explicitly, it's only implied by the default random origin generation method. If you choose Engineered Human as your first origin, it's your primary. Two of the three alternatives to random origin generation discussed allow that.
Yes, the Engineered Human's +2 to all overcharges, /is/ a specific rule that beats the fragment of the general rule about the same power source. That's no reason to think it wouldn't still need to be primary to grant a bonus at all, though.
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