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Sep 22, 2010 -- 4:15AM, frothsof wrote:

honestly, some of the stuff i have no idea what you are saying. devaluing the basic attack? thats the opposite of what essentials does in my estimation

To be fair I was specifically referring to the PHB, which absolutely says out-right that the basic attack is only good for opportunity attacks and you're always better off using a power in you turn.

I'm looking for specifics to help me wrap my head around all the changes.  Why exactly are the martial classes better this edition.  Like I said, it's a matter of information overload and I'm reaching out for some kind of road map.

If you think there is "option overload" in 4e, I'm quite curious how you ran 3e before with the sheer amount of splatbooks released with feas & spells (and more) in every godd*mn book (in 4e, only Player books has feats and powers).

If the answer is that you had fewer/no splatbooks, then that is exactly how you can play 4e without getting bogged down.

Sep 22, 2010 -- 5:14AM, icedcrow wrote:

I find people who enjoy 3.5 enjoy lone wolf tactics, building up characters that can cover a lot of areas on their own, and really like character specializing and optimization. 

I find people that enjoy 4.0 enjoy the team based role that they play and growing as a party instead of an individual character.

That's just my experience though.

I've played all versions of D&D.  4.0 is neither more complicated nor simpler than 3.5, it's just a very different game altogether.

I have never heard it put that way before, I completely agree

The first thing you need to do is realize that 4e is a completely different game with a completely different philosophy.  The name of the game in 4e is balance.  Ignoring Essentials, all of the classes are built on the same system for that reason.  This is why the Wizard has a smaller number of powers now.  In the balanced world of 4e, he's meant to control enemy actions and aoe enemy minions, not do more damage than anyone and have a solution to every problem.

Think of powers as the new feats.  Gaining new powers is where character customization lies now, feats generally (not always) offer more minor bonuses.  As for the benefits of the power system, all characters start out feeling heroic now instead of becoming heroes at level 9 or so.  Compare a level 1 4.0 Fighter to a level 1 3.5 Fighter.  The 4e Fighter gets free attacks any time his mark ignores him, he gets encounter powers that let him attack multiple enemies in a turn, he can push enemies around with his shield while doing full damage, and more, all at level 1.  The 3.5 Fighter can... attack or power attack =p 

Which points out the other advantage of the power system, especially for martial characters, in that it gives every character lots of options in combat.  Instead of doing nothing but multiple basic attacks, martial characters now get lots of options to manipulate the battlefield or apply status effects.  Yeah, you can't do 3 basic attacks in one round anymore, but the things you can do are more interesting.  Also, the higher level powers do as many weapon dice in damage as the old basic attack system.  A two hander wielding striker class is rolling 9d12 for his high level powers =p

If you're finding the sheer volume of powers to be overwhelming, step back and just look at it from level 1.  That's two at wills, one encounter, and one daily.  Run a mock encounter or two.  The system gradually introduces more powers as you level, and it's pretty intuitive once you get used to the idea.

All that said, if you long for classes with a more "traditional" feel, you should definitely check out Essentials.  The martial classes in it use nothing but basic attacks, but gain class features as they level which augment their basic attacks with new effects.  The spellcasters still use a slightly tweaked power system as outlined in the PHB, but it still adheres to the 4e philosophy of balanced classes.