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Switch to Forum Live View More Subtel Rule Changes from the RC
3 years ago  ::  Sep 17, 2010 - 3:54PM #1
Plaguescarred
Date Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 16,564

Continuining where Melos left, i bring you more subtle changes that appear in the new Rules Compendium Essential that i could catch on the first read.  (Personal insights underlined in parenthese.)




1. RC 135 Arcana        
(Detect Magic item seem to have disappeared from the Arcana)
Sense the Presence of Magic:
- DC: hard DC of the creature`s level. The creature automatically succeeds in detecting any source of magical energy within range that is five or more levels lower than it`s level.

2. RC 150 Perception
Find A Hidden Creature:  If a creature finds a hidden creature, it might point the hidden creature out to others, resulting in them knowing it`s locatio.

3. RC 214 Making Attacks
Step 6: if the attack power has more than one target, repeat steps 3 through 5 for each of them 


4. RC 218 Actions  (Before only Blind prevented Flanking based on sight See Low Slash)
Flanking: A creature cannot flank an enemy that it can`t see.


5. RC 235 Conditions  (Auto damage not halved anymore. MM or Rain of Steel anyone ?)
Weakened : The creature deals half damage. Two kinds of damage that it deals are not affected, however: ongoing damage and damage that isn`t generated by a attack roll.

6. RC 210 Flying       
(Any Flying creatures can now make OA and Shift)
Remaining In The Air: A creature does not need to take any particular action to remain aloft, the creature is assumed to be flying as it fights, moves or take other actions. Howerver a flying creature falls the instant it is stunned, unless it can hover. (See below)


7. RC 242 Action 
Delay:  free action. A creature can take this action only when it`s  turn is about to start. End of turn phase is split in two. One part occurs when the creature delays and the second part when it later takes it`s delayed turn.


End of turn when the creature delays: Any effect that it has been sustaining ends. Also effect that last until the end of the creature`s turn now end  if they are beneficial to it and it`s allies – they cannot be prolonged by delaying. For instance, if the creature stunned an enemy until the end of it`s next trun, the stunned condition ends as soon as the creature delays.


End of turn after the creature acts: After the creature returns to the initiative order and takes it`s delayed turn, it makes a saving throw it normally at the end of it`s turn. In addition, harmful effect that last until the end of the creature`s turn now end-they cannot be avoided by delaying. For instance, if the creature is weakened until the end of it`s next turn, the weakened condition end only after it acts.

8. RC 243 Escape A Grab or Immobilizing Effect
Against multiple grabbers: if the creature is trying to escape and is grabbed by more than one source at once, the creature makes a single check against the highest of the grab DCs. The DC increase by 2 for each grabber beyond the first, to a maximum increase of 8.


9. RC 247 Ready An Action
Triggering opportunity actions: If a creature readies an action that normally triggers opportunity actions, it triggers them twice: when it readies the action and when it takes the action.


 Exemple: if an adventurer readies a ranged attack while adjacent to an enemy, he provokes an opportunity attack from that enemy. If he is still adjacent to an enemy when he makes the ranged attack, he provokes an opportunity attack again. 

10. RC 250 Squeeze      
(Before Squeeze rediuced your space and not your actual size)
Reduce size: When a Large, Huge or Guargantua creature squeezes, it`s size category effectively decrease by one until the squeeze ends. For instance, a Large creature that squeezes is effectively Medium during the squeeze. As it`s size decreases, such a creature is leaving squares, so it might trigger opportunity actions such as opportunity attacks. It cannot reduce it`s size if it`s unable to move.

11. RC 257 Hit Points
Bloodied value: The bloodied value of a typical creature equals one half it`s maximum hit points. A creature is bloodied when it`s current hit points drop to it`s bloodied value or lower. Certain powers and effects only work against a bloodied target or work better against such a target. An object is never considered to be bloodied.


when an unbloodied creature is killed outright, the creature does not become bloodied in the process. It I just dead. This rule means a minion, which has only 1 hit point, is bloodied only if an attacker reduces the minion to 0 hit point but knocks it unconscious instead of killibg it.

12. RC 268 Weapons
Improvised weapons: This category includes anything that was not fashioned as a weapon, but that can be used as one. Exemple includes fists, rocks, chairs and tankards.


Melee: a melee weapon cannot be used with a ranged power or an area power that has the weapon keyword, unless the weapon has the light thrown or heavy thrown property or the weapon is thrown as an improvised ranged weapon.


Ranged: a ranged weapon cannot be used with a melee  power or a close power that has the weapon keyword, unless the weapon has the light thrown or heavy thrown property or the weapon is wielded as an improvised melee weapon.

13. RC 273 Weapons
Improvised weapons:  When a weapon is used as an improvised weapon, the weapon`s normal characteristics (such as properties, powers, bonuses and critical hit effects) do not apply. For instance, if an adventurer smacks an adjacent monster with his or her magic bow and scores a critical hit, the bow`s critical hit effect does not apply, since the adventurer is using the bow as an improvised melee weapon.

14. RC 308 Glossary   
(Cause Fear and such compelling Powers aren't still a Force Movement)
Forced Movement: Movement that a creature is compelled to do, specifically a push, pull or a slide. A creature can be moved in other ways, such as through teleportation, but only pushes, pulls and slides are technically forced movement. 


15. RC 308 Glossary
Grabbed: While a creature is grabbed, it is immobilized. Maintaining this condition occupies whatever appendage, object or effect the grabber used to initiate the grab. This condition ends immediately on the creature if the grabber is subject to an effect that prevents it from taking actions, or if the creature ends up outside the range of the grabbing power or effect.


16. RC 308 Glossary  (Before hover allowed to remain in the air without moving and permitetd OA)
Hover: if a creature can hover, it can remain in the air if it is stunned. 


 






Yan
Montréal, Canada
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 17, 2010 - 4:16PM #2
Andrelai
Date Joined: Nov 14, 2008
Posts: 1,565
Cool, thanks!  It's nice to know they're clarifying a lot of things that were previously left to intuition and/or common sense.  Guess they realized there's no such thing as common sense among rules lawyers.

I particularly like the bits about grab and finding hidden creatures.
If your position is that the official rules don't matter, or that house rules can fix everything, please don't bother posting in forums about the official rules.  To do so is a waste of everyone's time.
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 17, 2010 - 9:58PM #3
Tichrimo
Date Joined: Feb 5, 2006
Posts: 2,151
Bah.  Still didn't get a proper "Grabbed" condition, eh? 
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 17, 2010 - 11:21PM #4
warrl
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2009
Posts: 5,267

Sep 17, 2010 -- 3:54PM, Plaguescarred wrote:

1. RC 135 Arcana        (Detect Magic item seem to have disappeared from the Arcana)

Sense the Presence of Magic:
- DC: hard DC of the creature`s level. The creature automatically succeeds in detecting any source of magical energy within range that is five or more levels lower than its level.


That makes sense. Lit candles are easy to spot from down the hall, but bonfires? They're tough even when you're standing next to them.

7. RC 242 Action 
Delay:  free action. A creature can take this action only when it`s  turn is about to start. End of turn phase is split in two. One part occurs when the creature delays and the second part when it later takes it`s delayed turn.


End of turn when the creature delays: Any effect that it has been sustaining ends. Also effect that last until the end of the creature`s turn now end  if they are beneficial to it and it`s allies – they cannot be prolonged by delaying. For instance, if the creature stunned an enemy until the end of it`s next trun, the stunned condition ends as soon as the creature delays.


End of turn after the creature acts: After the creature returns to the initiative order and takes it`s delayed turn, it makes a saving throw it normally at the end of it`s turn. In addition, harmful effect that last until the end of the creature`s turn now end-they cannot be avoided by delaying. For instance, if the creature is weakened until the end of it`s next turn, the weakened condition end only after it acts.


This is actually no change, it's just getting the official rules into a printed book (for the first time I think).



"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 17, 2010 - 11:55PM #5
Plaguescarred
Date Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 16,564
I agree Warri.

But what about Items detection ? So how are we supposed to Detect Magic Items now ?  It's Automatic  ?

I highlighted a difference both to show that more powerful individual automatically detected lower magical energy and to demonstrate that Items level they were referring to is gone. I must say Detecting Magic Item has always been a nebulous affair in 4E and not explicitly written. Also, it was not easy to achieve.



Before it used to be:

Sense the Presence of Magic: 1 minute.
DC: DC 20 + one-half the level of a magic item, power (conjuration or zone), ritual, or magical phenomenon within range.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2010 - 12:14AM #6
sawbladex
Date Joined: Apr 15, 2005
Posts: 259
magic items being automatic or explicitly a hard thing on a case basis is basically how I thought the game rolled.
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2010 - 2:58AM #7
MarkB
  • Here be Dragons next 100 km
Date Joined: Jul 7, 2004
Posts: 1,654

Sep 17, 2010 -- 11:55PM, Plaguescarred wrote:

I agree Warri.

But what about Items detection ? So how are we supposed to Detect Magic Items now ?  It's Automatic  ?

I highlighted a difference both to show that more powerful individual automatically detected lower magical energy and to demonstrate that Items level they were referring to is gone. I must say Detecting Magic Item has always been a nebulous affair in 4E and not explicitly written. Also, it was not easy to achieve.



Before it used to be:

Sense the Presence of Magic: 1 minute.
DC: DC 20 + one-half the level of a magic item, power (conjuration or zone), ritual, or magical phenomenon within range.



Presumably, a magic item is a "source of magic", and shows up automatically if it's at least 5 levels below your level, or if you make the check DC if it isn't.

It does seem weird that extremely weak sources of magic are more easily detected than extremely strong ones, but I guess it's consistent with the rules as a whole. 

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2010 - 7:00AM #8
Duskweaver
Date Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 3,633

Sep 17, 2010 -- 3:54PM, Plaguescarred wrote:

Ranged: a ranged weapon cannot be used with a melee  power or a close power that has the weapon keyword, unless the weapon has the light thrown or heavy thrown property or the weapon is wielded as an improvised melee weapon.



Wow. This screws up several rogue and ranger powers. Blinding Barrage, Cloud of Steel, Daunting Barrage and Steel Entrapment now only work with daggers and shurikens. Spray of Arrows and Unstoppable Arrows now cannot be used with any weapon that actually shoots arrows. I cannot believe this was intended.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2010 - 10:28AM #9
MarkB
  • Here be Dragons next 100 km
Date Joined: Jul 7, 2004
Posts: 1,654

Sep 18, 2010 -- 7:00AM, Duskweaver wrote:

Sep 17, 2010 -- 3:54PM, Plaguescarred wrote:

Ranged: a ranged weapon cannot be used with a melee  power or a close power that has the weapon keyword, unless the weapon has the light thrown or heavy thrown property or the weapon is wielded as an improvised melee weapon.



Wow. This screws up several rogue and ranger powers. Blinding Barrage, Cloud of Steel, Daunting Barrage and Steel Entrapment now only work with daggers and shurikens. Spray of Arrows and Unstoppable Arrows now cannot be used with any weapon that actually shoots arrows. I cannot believe this was intended.



Yeah, that is weird. It's reasonably sensible for close burst 1, but for other close effects it's excessively restrictive.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2010 - 10:47AM #10
DybrarH
Date Joined: Aug 6, 2008
Posts: 725
I would be inclined to argue that the line "Requirement: You must be wielding a ranged weapon" these powers generally include (or "wielding a crossbow" for the rogue powers) is another example of specific beating general – you can't usually use that kind of power while wielding a ranged weapon, but because they specifically let you and in fact require you to, it's fine. If you disagree, well, houserule time for the ranger at least.
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