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3 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2010 - 8:58AM
#81
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2006
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The non-combat use of poisons is crap. It's bringing back save or die but without the save. The first time they are used against the PCs the game will become unfun. If I'm going to die I want it to be during some epic battle, not because I ate a bowl of soup. Likewise, if I'm going to kill someone or something I want it to be during epic battle... not because they ate breakfast.
Um, it is for a PC to use against NPCS, not for NPCS to use against PCS. This is not 3e. Monsters and PCs don't use the same rules. This is a PC class.
I can think of lots of uses for that sort of thing...
infact I will bore you with an old character story...
I was playing a ninja in 3.5, and half the party was hidden, the other half captured, and to be excuted in the morning... my idea, take a half dozen bits of black lotus extract and mix it with the guards morning coffee... now on a 1 per one does that is deady, mixed in over 60 people just made them all alittle sick... giveing the 3 PCs able to do the rescue (The Gm ruled every guard was down 5hp, and had a -2 to all con based checks and skills including fort saves)
so yes having poison as more then combat power CAN be a good thing...
The assassin really needs a dagger based at-will power... it is the only assassin themed weapon not to get one.
I think they need a few more at wills, and a reason to not spam MBAs...
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?
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3 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2010 - 2:30PM
#82
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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If previous betas (and previews) are any indication, only half the powers (and poisons) availible are shown.
I do love the use of poisons and their non-combat uses because I sure as hell would rather drug someone than fight them if possible.
The Red Scales include unarmed attacks as a proficency so their throw isn't missing a prof bonus.
If I recall correctly, it is possible to swap class features so if someone wants shadowstep it's possible to get it back though I will state this is off the top of my head so don't hold me to it.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2010 - 3:25PM
#83
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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The assassin really needs a dagger based at-will power... it is the only assassin themed weapon not to get one.
Yeah definitly. A Power using a knife (poignard) to commit assassination is a must ! (SORRY FOR THE MESS)
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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3 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2010 - 9:12PM
#84
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If I recall correctly, it is possible to swap class features so if someone wants shadowstep it's possible to get it back though I will state this is off the top of my head so don't hold me to it.
In cases like MP and MP2 builds this is true, but in those cases they explicitly state which class features get swapped. I'd be open to such a delineation. Shrouds in exchange for Attack Finesse, for instance (although I'm not sure that's entirely a balanced trade.) If that's the case, Guild Executioner PP would have to change its prerequisites to Assassin's Strike power.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 12:09PM
#85
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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Something else I noticed... the garrote strangle's sustain should probably mention that it counts as an attack, and thus allows you to add the assassin's finesse bonus damage dice.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 3:32PM
#86
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Some of the things I liked were the weapon based guild powers. However I instead of breaking it up into two guilds just mis-mash the whole lot of them together and when you choose the at-will you gain the prof. for that weapon as well. It can still be guild weapons but then your not specific to a particular guild. I like the fluff and flavor for the two presented but I wouldent restrict the list of player opens to them.
Unarmed Throw should maybe include a Slide the target to any square adjacent square then Push 1 square instead of just Push 1. Maybe add that if the target is thrown into a solid object such as a Wall, another enemy or a table the target takes 1, 2 or 3 points of damage or something cool like that. I'd maybe also allow it to be used as a Basic Melee when making Opportunity Attacks.
I like the idea of combining some of the special weapons with different weapons as I personally think the imagry I get grom Unseen Spear is kind of dumb. I mean, I get this image of sneaking up on a guy and putting them into a full nelson with a spear or javalin (why not a quarterstaff?). It might be cooler if you could use the power to pull a bad guy back into the shadows as part of the attack. Allowing the use of a short list of weapons with specific attacks would be nice (Garrot Strangle could include the spear/javalin as well as a dagger as you slice the guys throat as he struggles, Unseen Spearhead same weapon set, Kukri Lunge could be Daggers, Kurku, and maybe Rapier, Bolo Takedown maybe could be used with a Spear or Javalin as well but does Dex damage instead of immobilizing, Close Quarters Shot maybe could be any crossbow not just Hand Crossbows or any Crossbow or Bow, Uneering Shuriken would be nice to shift 2 before the attack or move your speed after, that way they can retrain combat advantage if they were hidden before the attack. Maybe also include that if they move their speed after the attack, they do not suffer the -5 penalty for moving more than 2)
I like the Assassin's strike but not the bonus damage to all attacks. I think their would be a better way to do this. The soul of an assassin is the single devistating strike and/or the very exotic weapon choices. Part of this is handled by the guild weapons though. I would give them their death attack at 1st level but drop it from 10 HP to 5HP then every 5 levels afterwords it increases by +5 (10 at 6th, 15 at 11th, etc...) The Assassin's strike covers the single potent attack though I might lower the damage progression and give them an additional use per tier or give them a 'power point' like mechanic where they can expend these shroud points to deal 1D6 or D10 extra damage. they get 1-2pts at 1st level and earn additional as they go up in level (maybe 1-2 per level depending on the bonus damage) but they can spend a max of X points at once to keep it form becoming too over powering. Then you can feat in a Bonus +1 per point spent when you strike from combat advantage or something like that (equiv. to Leathal Hunter, Backstabber etc..)
Since the Assassin is built around the single devistating strike I'd remove the +1d6 they get with every attack and instead replace it with a Backstab encounter power like ability but in order to not step on the Rogue's toe's maybe make it a ability like the new version of Rightious Wrath of the Faithful Channel Divinity power and as they go up in level they get additional uses of that power.
Between the above two changes it really helps embrace the idea of very few very devistating attacks but outside of these few super-sized attacks they deal solid but otherwise average damage. In a Way you could think of it that a Warlock and Ranger will get their bonus damage 90% of the time, Rogues will sneak attack 75% of the time depending on power picks, the Assassin may only get their Striker damage 20% of the time but its gives 2-3 times the kick of a Sneak Attack with the Death Attack finishing off enemies with less than X HP allowing them to still feel valuable and strikery once their super-sized striker damage is expended.
I like the poisons but I would like to see more varities. especially ones that can be applied to weapons and ammo that have a save effect (for the Blowgun use, which the Blowgun at will is hidiously accurate given its hit effect it could be devistating). However as some have pointed out the issue of some of the poisons being used against PC's is valid as NPC's Monsters can become elite's by templeting into a class so their is precedent. So a further side bar should either say DM's should not use these poisons on PC's or the specific effects need to be tailored so that if used against a player its not as hidious as our concerns.
Lastly, I personally liked that The Assassin's super damage output was tempered by just how much of a glass cannon they were. I like that it had Wizard HP progression. That was part of the appeal. The assassin was devistating if it could get in close enough to deliver its devistating attacks but if cornered they were brought down swiftly. I might make Assassin's Strike limited to the Assassin Guild's weapons to prevent it from being used in conjunction with Greatbow's or Fullblades etc. In order to preserve the appeal of the special weapon groups (and to keep a little bit of control over just their super-striker attack potential).
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 4:50PM
#87
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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I like the Assassin's strike but not the bonus damage to all attacks. I think their would be a better way to do this. The soul of an assassin is the single devistating strike and/or the very exotic weapon choices. Part of this is handled by the guild weapons though. I would give them their death attack at 1st level but drop it from 10 HP to 5HP then every 5 levels afterwords it increases by +5 (10 at 6th, 15 at 11th, etc...) The Assassin's strike covers the single potent attack though I might lower the damage progression and give them an additional use per tier or give them a 'power point' like mechanic where they can expend these shroud points to deal 1D6 or D10 extra damage. they get 1-2pts at 1st level and earn additional as they go up in level (maybe 1-2 per level depending on the bonus damage) but they can spend a max of X points at once to keep it form becoming too over powering. Then you can feat in a Bonus +1 per point spent when you strike from combat advantage or something like that (equiv. to Leathal Hunter, Backstabber etc..)
Since the Assassin is built around the single devistating strike I'd remove the +1d6 they get with every attack and instead replace it with a Backstab encounter power like ability but in order to not step on the Rogue's toe's maybe make it a ability like the new version of Rightious Wrath of the Faithful Channel Divinity power and as they go up in level they get additional uses of that power.
Please, for the love of god, don't listen to this. Assassins already get their single very devastating strike via the assassin's strike encounter power. If you remove the finesse bonus damage you will lower the DPS of this assassin to the point where it will become worthless. We finally have an assassin class worth playing. Lets not kill it before it even has a chance to flower. In this area, the mechanics that the class currently has are great as is; we should leave those mechanics as they are.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 4:53PM
#88
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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The amount of actions required to apply your assassins poisons needs to be fixed. Right now it takes at least two minor actions to use any of your poisons. In play this is a pretty big nerf in comparison to any other classes ability to use their daily powers. The quick swap assassin ability should allow assassins to draw one of their poisons as a free action so that assassins don't have to use a minor action to draw a created poison before applying it to their weapon.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 9:16PM
#89
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2009
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Some of the things I liked were the weapon based guild powers. However I instead of breaking it up into two guilds just mis-mash the whole lot of them together and when you choose the at-will you gain the prof. for that weapon as well. It can still be guild weapons but then your not specific to a particular guild. I like the fluff and flavor for the two presented but I wouldent restrict the list of player opens to them.
Unarmed Throw should maybe include a Slide the target to any square adjacent square then Push 1 square instead of just Push 1. Maybe add that if the target is thrown into a solid object such as a Wall, another enemy or a table the target takes 1, 2 or 3 points of damage or something cool like that. I'd maybe also allow it to be used as a Basic Melee when making Opportunity Attacks.
I like the idea of combining some of the special weapons with different weapons as I personally think the imagry I get grom Unseen Spear is kind of dumb. I mean, I get this image of sneaking up on a guy and putting them into a full nelson with a spear or javalin (why not a quarterstaff?). It might be cooler if you could use the power to pull a bad guy back into the shadows as part of the attack. Allowing the use of a short list of weapons with specific attacks would be nice (Garrot Strangle could include the spear/javalin as well as a dagger as you slice the guys throat as he struggles, Unseen Spearhead same weapon set, Kukri Lunge could be Daggers, Kurku, and maybe Rapier, Bolo Takedown maybe could be used with a Spear or Javalin as well but does Dex damage instead of immobilizing, Close Quarters Shot maybe could be any crossbow not just Hand Crossbows or any Crossbow or Bow, Uneering Shuriken would be nice to shift 2 before the attack or move your speed after, that way they can retrain combat advantage if they were hidden before the attack. Maybe also include that if they move their speed after the attack, they do not suffer the -5 penalty for moving more than 2)
I like the Assassin's strike but not the bonus damage to all attacks. I think their would be a better way to do this. The soul of an assassin is the single devistating strike and/or the very exotic weapon choices. Part of this is handled by the guild weapons though. I would give them their death attack at 1st level but drop it from 10 HP to 5HP then every 5 levels afterwords it increases by +5 (10 at 6th, 15 at 11th, etc...) The Assassin's strike covers the single potent attack though I might lower the damage progression and give them an additional use per tier or give them a 'power point' like mechanic where they can expend these shroud points to deal 1D6 or D10 extra damage. they get 1-2pts at 1st level and earn additional as they go up in level (maybe 1-2 per level depending on the bonus damage) but they can spend a max of X points at once to keep it form becoming too over powering. Then you can feat in a Bonus +1 per point spent when you strike from combat advantage or something like that (equiv. to Leathal Hunter, Backstabber etc..)
Since the Assassin is built around the single devistating strike I'd remove the +1d6 they get with every attack and instead replace it with a Backstab encounter power like ability but in order to not step on the Rogue's toe's maybe make it a ability like the new version of Rightious Wrath of the Faithful Channel Divinity power and as they go up in level they get additional uses of that power.
Between the above two changes it really helps embrace the idea of very few very devistating attacks but outside of these few super-sized attacks they deal solid but otherwise average damage. In a Way you could think of it that a Warlock and Ranger will get their bonus damage 90% of the time, Rogues will sneak attack 75% of the time depending on power picks, the Assassin may only get their Striker damage 20% of the time but its gives 2-3 times the kick of a Sneak Attack with the Death Attack finishing off enemies with less than X HP allowing them to still feel valuable and strikery once their super-sized striker damage is expended.
I like the poisons but I would like to see more varities. especially ones that can be applied to weapons and ammo that have a save effect (for the Blowgun use, which the Blowgun at will is hidiously accurate given its hit effect it could be devistating). However as some have pointed out the issue of some of the poisons being used against PC's is valid as NPC's Monsters can become elite's by templeting into a class so their is precedent. So a further side bar should either say DM's should not use these poisons on PC's or the specific effects need to be tailored so that if used against a player its not as hidious as our concerns.
Lastly, I personally liked that The Assassin's super damage output was tempered by just how much of a glass cannon they were. I like that it had Wizard HP progression. That was part of the appeal. The assassin was devistating if it could get in close enough to deliver its devistating attacks but if cornered they were brought down swiftly. I might make Assassin's Strike limited to the Assassin Guild's weapons to prevent it from being used in conjunction with Greatbow's or Fullblades etc. In order to preserve the appeal of the special weapon groups (and to keep a little bit of control over just their super-striker attack potential).
I agree with pretty much everything he said. I don't want "consistent", "predictable" damage for an Assassin. As he said, that's what Rangers, Warlocks, and Rogues are for. I like the "burstiness" of Assassin's Shroud, and I'd like to see something similar with this build.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 9:36PM
#90
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Date Joined:
Jun 11, 2008
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I'm seeing a minor problem with trying to build an executioner at the moment. As stated in step 6 of the creation process you have to buy a poisoner's kit yet there is no price for this item ever listed in the article.
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