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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 3:35PM
#471
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@Duke: Hey, give it hell, brother. There's plenty enough room in the D&D multiverse for all of us. If I ever get to DM for anyone other than a bunch of grouchy old men who have been playing D&D since it was created, I'll be happy to use the new magic item distribution rules. Which, I guess will be this week since I'm DMing the next season of Encounters at one of my FLGS.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 7:00PM
#472
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2007
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I find it curious that you seem to regard anyone who doesn't play like you as a control freak and egotistical and unreasonable.
You should know the difference between:
1. Not liking egotistical control freak DMs.
2. Not being an egotistical control freak DM.
And
3. Claiming anyone who doesn't play like me is one.
I'v never claimed anyone who doesn't play like me is one. If you believe that I believe you are an egotistical, control freak DM. I can live with that. Doesn't mean it's true, but I won't lose sleep over it.
Long Live Dragonlance and the Nexus! I still want an athasian nightmare beast and a warforged dragon mini! "Look, Meat, I'll tear your face off, rip your throat out and eat what's left-because that's what I do to food like you." ~Thrikreen Intimidation Tactic. My Custom 4th edition Content (New Content:2)
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Updated Weapon Options. (critical impact, repair, salvage)
http://www.4shared.com/document/bMZK2PNy/Updated_Optional_Darksun_Weapo.html
4th edition Athasian Sloth v1.2 (includes three monster write ups and a new disease)
http://www.4shared.com/document/lj561SRh/4th_edition_Athasian_Sloth_v10.html
4th edition Athasian Flailer v1.0
http://www.4shared.com/document/JGi9PqSe/4th_edition__Athasian_Flailer_.html
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 7:16PM
#473
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Look. everyone is free to run the game however they want. It's kinda the point. But this little exchange kinda bothered me...
The game NEEDS rules that allow the player to have a say in what magic items the player gets. This doesn't need to be treasure rewards. The DM can hand out anything as long as the player can still buy/make the items the player actually wants. Then there is no problem. Enchant magic item does this. Although, some DMs even try to remove that ability from the game.
NEEDS? Why? Because you want the game to be more like World of Warcraft? So you can boast with CharOp buddies? Why is this SO important? The D&D game existed for quite a long time without players being given explicit say in what magic items they receive. It doesn't HAVE to have it now.
Justin, why do you so quickly equate a player getting an item he wants, as opposed to what the DM gives him, to WoW or CharOp (with a seeming negative connotation)?
Is there something inherently wrong with a player that wants his character to have a Lightning Hammer, and thus puts it on his wishlist? Is wanting a specific item evidence of being a munchkin or powergamer or charop-er? Would it be any different if the item was really powerful, or really not powerful? Especially if the reason the player wanted the items was because it shoots lightning at enemies and shooting lightning is really freakin' cool...
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
Roll dice, not cars.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 7:33PM
#474
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Second thought, but not directly related to previous post, so it gets a post of its own:
Is a wishlist that the player creates and the DM picks a few items from any different in practice from the player talking about what type of equipment the player envisions his character having and the DM listening to the request ("Rabion the Swordmage is a former mercenary who, after being struck by lightning on the field of battle, found his latent magical abilities "sparked". Can he have a lightning blade so all his powers will be lightning damage type?" "Sure. Sounds cool.")
Especially since most players will create a wishlist, and also talk about it to the DM.
Aren't wishlists, in essence, a formalization of a practice reasonable players and reasonable DMs have been doing for 30+ years?
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
Roll dice, not cars.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 9:38PM
#475
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Look. everyone is free to run the game however they want. It's kinda the point. But this little exchange kinda bothered me...
The game NEEDS rules that allow the player to have a say in what magic items the player gets. This doesn't need to be treasure rewards. The DM can hand out anything as long as the player can still buy/make the items the player actually wants. Then there is no problem. Enchant magic item does this. Although, some DMs even try to remove that ability from the game.
NEEDS? Why? Because you want the game to be more like World of Warcraft? So you can boast with CharOp buddies? Why is this SO important? The D&D game existed for quite a long time without players being given explicit say in what magic items they receive. It doesn't HAVE to have it now.
Justin, why do you so quickly equate a player getting an item he wants, as opposed to what the DM gives him, to WoW or CharOp (with a seeming negative connotation)?
Is there something inherently wrong with a player that wants his character to have a Lightning Hammer, and thus puts it on his wishlist? Is wanting a specific item evidence of being a munchkin or powergamer or charop-er? Would it be any different if the item was really powerful, or really not powerful? Especially if the reason the player wanted the items was because it shoots lightning at enemies and shooting lightning is really freakin' cool...
I should know better than to stick my big snoot into these kinds of discussions after having served as a forum moderator on a number Web sites over the years. These debates usually end with smoking wreckage because communicating in this fashion (with no body language or inflection) makes the process of give and take much more difficult. I tend to come off far more standoffish than I am in "real life".
From this point forward, I need to do a better job of adhering to my usual policy of forum participation: ask pointed questions when I need help or advice and offer help in kind when I can. Stay out of the big debates.
I've said all I have to say on the matter of wishlists and magic item distribution. I apologize if something I said rubbed you the wrong way.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 10:42PM
#476
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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Aren't wishlists, in essence, a formalization of a practice reasonable players and reasonable DMs have been doing for 30+ years?
That's been my impression too, yes. Alternatively, though, in 3.5 it didn't matter what I gave to my players, because they could just make whatever they wanted anyways (especially when they had an artificer - and it was a favorite class).
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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.
No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).
(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft)A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)My 4e Projects
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3 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2010 - 11:40PM
#477
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2003
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Second thought, but not directly related to previous post, so it gets a post of its own:
Is a wishlist that the player creates and the DM picks a few items from any different in practice from the player talking about what type of equipment the player envisions his character having and the DM listening to the request ("Rabion the Swordmage is a former mercenary who, after being struck by lightning on the field of battle, found his latent magical abilities "sparked". Can he have a lightning blade so all his powers will be lightning damage type?" "Sure. Sounds cool.")
Especially since most players will create a wishlist, and also talk about it to the DM.
Aren't wishlists, in essence, a formalization of a practice reasonable players and reasonable DMs have been doing for 30+ years?
A formal suggestion?
Knowing is Half the Battle.
The Other Half is VIOLENCE.
Imagine a lightsaber duel between Optimus Prime and Batman. You're welcome.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 12:43AM
#478
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@ HJustin
I wasn't trying to come off as a dick or accusatory. I merely read something, and in absence of further context (like facial expression and tone), I "heard" it a certain way. My post was part indignation, but mostly curiosity. I really do want to hear your response to my hypothetical. Not trying to trap you, or play "A-HA!" or paint you (or your playstyle) in a poor light.
By questioning or understanding the reasoning of "the other side", I strengthen my reasoning and analytical skills. It's also the reason why I, a left-wing liberal nut-bar, watch Fox News as often as MSNBC.
@Scylis
Heh. I guess, yeah.
More like a (not-so) subtle shove in the direction of a certain way of play, one that is probably more common than not. I tend to think that after hearing those who are "anti-wishlist" talk about what they do (and don't do) in their game(s), it seems to actually be in line with what the PHB and DMG say about wishlists. Listen to the players, give them items they can use and would like, but don't give them everything under the sun in order to preserve campaign integrity (and balance).
Also, since wishlists are a suggestion, and not really rules, their presence in the book makes them literally a "formal suggestion", much in the same way that the book "suggests" there be at least one member of each "role", and that the players should number between 4 and 6. Less and you have trouble filling out the roles; more, you have trouble keeping the game on track and moving forward.
None of the above are rules, just recommendations made after years of experience and hands-on knowledge.
I honestly get the impression that the devs, after having played D&D since the earliest editions, realized what made their campaigns work and layed out their strategy: balanced play experience, player input, open-ended roleplaying "rules". 4e tries (and mostly succeeds) at following those design inspirations. Whether you like that or not is a whole different question.
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
Roll dice, not cars.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 3:50AM
#479
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2008
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Here is a good solution to the whole DM thing: don't use one.
My gaming group is around 15 players and we dungeon delve. We pick our magic items using the parcel award system. I've corrupted some hard core 'role-players' to the notion of dm-less campaigns. I've been doing this since 1st edition. I am the true summation of the anti-dm philosophy (must be the warhammer in me). Now we have a few players who write up some story for each adventure but I honestly have not paid much attention to it.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 12:20PM
#480
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lol at your avatar adun
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