|
3 years ago ::
Sep 30, 2010 - 5:13AM
#171
|
Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2009
|
well let's look at another company that is in the same biz...
Pazio and Pathfinder...
Pazio does not do software because well, they are not a software company. How many character builders are there for Pathfinder, google it and see. There are spell cards, character sheets, web sites, an SRD plus Pazio has PDFs of all their books and adventures available for purchase and still the dead tree version of Pathfinder Core Rules is currently #3,585 on the Amazon best seller's list (as of this moment).
Pathfinder is required to have an SRD, which has no relation to electronic book media. Pathfinder is a coat-tail riding game that offers very little in terms of improvements to 3.X's clunky broken system. Instead of attempting to create something original Paizo has taken something already created and placed minor modifications here and there.
Its not a bad business strategy, but they aren't traded on walmart.com where as DND is. While pathfinder is an rpg dead end, DnD 4th is at least trying to advance the hobby.
In today's electronic world of iPads, iPhones and eBook readers IMO WoTC has missed the boat. Wizards of the Coast is not a software company and what makes it worse they do not seem to want to leverage anything that their very loyal fan base can offer. They do not sell PDFs, they shut down power cards, character builders, and worst of all stomped on Master Plan, but offer no alternatives. Why? Because someone might copy their IP, yet 2 days after a book comes out in print I can download the PDF (not legally). Who are they hurting? Their loyal customers who would pay for PDFs and cannot, or the customers who purchased the PDFs and now cannot redownload them if they are lost.
Alright, to put simply, DnD has two forms of IP one is copyright which exsists whether you enforce it or not, the other is trademarking. If you don't enforce trademarks you lose them. Therfor if it can be proven that say; Masterplan used the name Dungeons and Dragons and WotC knew about it and did nothing then WotC loses the trademark to Dungeons and Dragons. Smaller companies have a lot less to lose in trademark losses than larger companies and in the cottage industry of RPGs, there is litterally WotC with something to lose. The character builder and the monster builder in the DDI are good products, but for 10 bucks I can sign up download the latest patch and cancel. Or if I was not the legal sort the latest updates are widely available on the interwebz.
Yes piracy is a large concern, it always has been and is likely to always be. Yes you can sign up for one month at a time. Neither of these has any relation to the discussion that I can see.
see what you did here? This is called deflection, you do not address my argument you attack Pazio, Pathfinder and even 3E. Pazio is succeeding even though Wizards claims that everything Pazio is doing would cause Wizards to fail. Wizards pulled PDFs because in their words “there were too many pirates”, yet Pazio sells their books in PDF form and they somehow manage to sell more PDFs and even dead tree versions of those books. Pathfinder has Character builders, powercards, and an iPhone app all at zero cost to Pazio. They are doing well with Pathfinder despite being ,“required” as you put it, to have an SRD. Dungeons and Dragons IMO has always been about fan created material and Wizards is not doing themselves any favors by threatening their fan base with lawsuits. Wizards issued a CnD order against MasterPlan not because it was using the Dungeons and Dragons name, but because someone with a subscription to the DDI could download and save data from the compendium locally. Well guess what? You can do that now, just click “make available off-line” or do a save as on the webpage. Yet, somehow MasterPlan had to stop doing something that everyone on the internet does every day, because Wizards felt threatened by a fan based product. Wizards is not a software company and their track record in the age of the web has been less than stellar. My point about the character/monster builder was that these products are good and should be free. Wizards expected people to sign up for the DDI and continue to pay for it, even though Wizards raised the price, promised products that were not released and their online magazine quality has gone way downhill from when those magazines where in dead tree form… Oh wait, that’s right Pazio was publishing Dungeon and Dragon magazine not Wizards until 4E came out. If Wizards of the Coast does not do something, they are going to be the game left behind. I would contend that Wizards is also a “is a coat-tail riding game” since many of the improvements that were made in 4E where made in other role playing games before Wizards released 4E, some even in alternate d20 3.5 SRD player's handbooks.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Sep 30, 2010 - 5:40AM
#172
|
Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2002
|
Pazio does not have any offical Pathfinder apps out for the iphone yet, but they did hint they are working on one. Another company put out iphone apps of the Pathfinder SRD rules and spell lists. But Pazio knows thats a good thing and is not hitting that company with a C&D order.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Sep 30, 2010 - 5:41AM
#173
|
Date Joined:
May 21, 2008
|
Ok lets start with the piracy thing.
Even presuming that Paizo ate into the last reliable numbers for DnD book sales DnD holds a clear majority of the market (The last reliable numbers I have are from a month after 4E launch when 7 out of 10 books were DnD books).
Paizo is number 2, even assuming they cut out a 20% market from dnd and various other places to create this for pathfinder they are a blip on the radar. The economics of distrubution...you know what rather than try and explain a complex theory I'll put it this way.
The risk/reward factor for Wizards is such that removing PDF's isn't a bad option for them, but it would be for a smaller marketeer (well a non-self printing company anyway). Its kinda like many indie record labels will seed torrents of a band to generate sells. Its a cheaper method in many ways of marketing for them, but when you get a group that will sell platinum or double platinum it stops being a viable marketing methodology. DnD is already known in the community of gamers, putting it out there for others to see actually is a detriment. While stopping pdf's hasn't (and won't) stop piracy, it takes value from the pirated books as they are no longer shiny, they are scanned copies of books.
So point one about the piracy, its like comparing apples and oragnes. The risk/reward factor for Wizards is such that piracy is something they need to combat where as paizo doesn't have to as its vehicle is lesser known and their sales is significantly smaller.
Ahh that was the sticky wicket, which makes even more sense as allowing the intergration of it actually would jeopardize their presumed trademarks on well...everything related to DnD. At least from my non lawyer view. While it would be nice to come up with a compromise thats generally not advised from a legal prespective.
Wizards isn't a software company and when they outsource their software they have a less than stellar record. Unless you think 1 update out of 12 (excluding a prewarned holiday slowdown on updates as them failing) is um, far from 'bad'. By the time DDI required payment, there was no promising of products that they didn't deliver. Yes the books said there would be a VTT and had their third party developer delivered there would be, yet strangely they failed to deliver.
Also, I disagree about the quality. Instead of out right banning of the magazines from my table, most of the stuff is at least of the same calibre as in the books. Of course there is also the fact that broken stuff now gets fixed in dungeon/dragon as well...
Ok, you seem to be misunderstanding something. Paizo saw that there was the usual angry fanfare about a new edition sucking. They took 3.X and basically altered the sorcerer, and um, thats all I noticed right away published it as 'PATHFINDER'.
Wizards took an amalgam of good ideas, combined them retooled the game and its interactions, and then released it as 4E. Also how does one ride one's own coattails? 'cause ultimately all D20 SRD derived material rides on the name of DnD so what you are basically saying is
"wizards derived its material from other people who derived their material from wizards...."
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Sep 30, 2010 - 6:07AM
#174
|
Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
|
I do not know, and have never heard of a single person who has just up and decided one day to start playing D&D. I've been playing since the origional red box, and remember seeing the boxes at KB toy store and elsewhere.
But even at the several game shops that have come and gone in that time in my area, I've only ever met people who were introduced to the game by other players.
So if thats their big plan on getting new players, they are once again failing at marketing.
I too used to believe this until I posted a question on ENworld asking how people were introduced to the game. I couldn't believe it but almost half the answers were the original red box, either received as a gift or purchased themselves. And they all pretty much taught themselves.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Sep 30, 2010 - 6:50AM
#175
|
|
|
I do not know, and have never heard of a single person who has just up and decided one day to start playing D&D. I've been playing since the origional red box, and remember seeing the boxes at KB toy store and elsewhere.
But even at the several game shops that have come and gone in that time in my area, I've only ever met people who were introduced to the game by other players.
So if thats their big plan on getting new players, they are once again failing at marketing.
I too used to believe this until I posted a question on ENworld asking how people were introduced to the game. I couldn't believe it but almost half the answers were the original red box, either received as a gift or purchased themselves. And they all pretty much taught themselves.
When I was 14, my best friend got the blue box for Christmas. That was the start. Before neither of us had ever heard of such a game, wargaming, or anything like it.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Sep 30, 2010 - 7:01AM
#176
|
|
|
When I was 11 or 12 a friend got the 1977 Basic Set (blue box) and we learned to play together.
Regards,
Kalex the Omen
Kalex the Omen Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire Concerning Player Rules Bias
Show
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Sep 30, 2010 - 7:04AM
#177
|
Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
|
The Red Box is aimed at a couple of audiences.
1 - The mom in WalMart/KMart/ToysRUs who walks by it, sees it, thinks "Johnny likes games with magic and stuff, maybe he will like this. $20 isn't too bad if he doesn't".
2 - Current players who think "I like D&D, and maybe my neice/nephew/son/daughter will like it..."
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Sep 30, 2010 - 7:24AM
#178
|
Date Joined:
May 11, 2004
|
3 - People who see the box and think "D&D? Haven't played that since High School. It was fun, maybe I'll give it a try again."
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Sep 30, 2010 - 7:39AM
#179
|
|
|
This is just a joke. Fixed it. 3 - People who see the box and think "D&D? Hey, now that my wife left me, I can finally be myself and play again!"
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Sep 30, 2010 - 7:54AM
#180
|
Date Joined:
May 11, 2004
|
This is just a joke. Fixed it.
3 - People who see the box and think "D&D? Hey, now that my wife left me, I can finally be myself and play again!"
Heheh.
Yeah, those of us who were lucky enough to get our wives into the hobby never had to stop in the first place.
|
|
|
