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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 5:25PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2008
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See this is my fear people pointed towards essentials classes to start out will get bored within two sessions and quit playing because they think the game is boring when really the only fault lies with the classes. I saw this happen 3-4 times with 3.5 people who were new to the game were steared towards the fighter and told to just attack and learn the game couple sessions later they quit because it was not very much fun variety and choice in power is what makes the game fun not swinging with the same thing over and over again.
Or maybe they'll move on to the other 4E books or an Insider subscription and have access to all the "non-boring" stuff. In which case, the Essentials product will have achieved one of its design goals by bringing a new player into the fold.
Or why not just start with real classes in the first place?
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 5:27PM
#52
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Or why not just start with real classes in the first place?
See post above.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 5:28PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2007
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See this is my fear people pointed towards essentials classes to start out will get bored within two sessions and quit playing because they think the game is boring when really the only fault lies with the classes. I saw this happen 3-4 times with 3.5 people who were new to the game were steared towards the fighter and told to just attack and learn the game couple sessions later they quit because it was not very much fun variety and choice in power is what makes the game fun not swinging with the same thing over and over again.
Or maybe they'll move on to the other 4E books or an Insider subscription and have access to all the "non-boring" stuff. In which case, the Essentials product will have achieved one of its design goals by bringing a new player into the fold.
Or why not just start with real classes in the first place?
Or why not have as many options as possible? More options total, more people will like it?
 Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 5:31PM
#54
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Or why not just start with real classes in the first place?
Or why not have as many options as possible? More options total, more people will like it?
Good point. My enjoyment of 4E increases by leaps and bounds when I open the character builder and have 3000 feats to choose from. Good times, indeed.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 5:31PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2008
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See this is my fear people pointed towards essentials classes to start out will get bored within two sessions and quit playing because they think the game is boring when really the only fault lies with the classes. I saw this happen 3-4 times with 3.5 people who were new to the game were steared towards the fighter and told to just attack and learn the game couple sessions later they quit because it was not very much fun variety and choice in power is what makes the game fun not swinging with the same thing over and over again.
Or maybe they'll move on to the other 4E books or an Insider subscription and have access to all the "non-boring" stuff. In which case, the Essentials product will have achieved one of its design goals by bringing a new player into the fold.
Or why not just start with real classes in the first place?
Or why not have as many options as possible? More options total, more people will like it?
Because everything should use the same system. EVERY class should use the power system because it makes the game more simple and elegant over all. Makes for fewer rules and fewer subsets of rules.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 5:33PM
#56
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2007
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Because everything should use the same system. EVERY class should use the power system because it makes the game more simple and elegant over all. Makes for fewer rules and fewer subsets of rules.
The game is already different systems, the essentials classes are no different then the psionics using no encounters.
Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 5:35PM
#57
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- I'm Geling Like Magellan!
Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2002
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I am personally excited by the new martial choices. The Slayer and the Thief seem like really fun ideas, and I like the fact that we finally are getting something different. The homogenization of classes was my big problem with 4e. The fact that something different is available with a new mechanical style of play is, in my opinion, a very good thing. With all of the neat class abilities and modifiers in play, basic attacks are going to a helluva lotta fun, and allow for different classes to feel... different.
?? Thats what I like about 4E I never understood why every class has to be that different. Each class in 4e is different but each is similiar enough that you learn one class and you can play any class. Id never introduce a new player using essentials because its different than 4e Id introduce them using 4e which is simple enough. I dont see it as a good thing the more diffrences you have the less balanced its going to be. There is NO way these essentials classes are going to be balanced they will be either under powered or over powered and break the game.
To each their own, really. If you like the fact that 4e classes are all the same(ish) then by all means, more power to you. What you need to understand is that there are people (like myself) that aren't so fond of it. I like different classes with different abilities. I like to be able to play different classes and have them feel, act, and work differently.
You say that there is NO way there will be balance, but you don't know that, you are simply assuming that, rightly or wrongly. I disagree, I think that it's not all that difficult to have a decent semblance of balance, at least as solid as what exists in 4e right now.
Regardless, I personally would take fun over perfect balance because of homogenization. But that's just my opinion.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 5:38PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2008
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I am personally excited by the new martial choices. The Slayer and the Thief seem like really fun ideas, and I like the fact that we finally are getting something different. The homogenization of classes was my big problem with 4e. The fact that something different is available with a new mechanical style of play is, in my opinion, a very good thing. With all of the neat class abilities and modifiers in play, basic attacks are going to a helluva lotta fun, and allow for different classes to feel... different.
?? Thats what I like about 4E I never understood why every class has to be that different. Each class in 4e is different but each is similiar enough that you learn one class and you can play any class. Id never introduce a new player using essentials because its different than 4e Id introduce them using 4e which is simple enough. I dont see it as a good thing the more diffrences you have the less balanced its going to be. There is NO way these essentials classes are going to be balanced they will be either under powered or over powered and break the game.
To each their own, really. If you like the fact that 4e classes are all the same(ish) then by all means, more power to you. What you need to understand is that there are people (like myself) that aren't so fond of it. I like different classes with different abilities. I like to be able to play different classes and have them feel, act, and work differently.
You say that there is NO way there will be balance, but you don't know that, you are simply assuming that, rightly or wrongly. I disagree, I think that it's not all that difficult to have a decent semblance of balance, at least as solid as what exists in 4e right now.
Regardless, I personally would take fun over perfect balance because of homogenization. But that's just my opinion.
the 4e classes already feel different and act diffrent in play though you dont need different mechanics for that. Just different power sets, and class features.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 5:40PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2008
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Because everything should use the same system. EVERY class should use the power system because it makes the game more simple and elegant over all. Makes for fewer rules and fewer subsets of rules.
The game is already different systems, the essentials classes are no different then the psionics using no encounters.
but psionics have a limited use mechanic where as the new ones operate entirley at will with expending no resources to do it thats one of the things that irks me. And psionics is about as different as Id like to see and the ONLY reason I like it is its psionics which should be a bit different. These classes have no reason for being different.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 5:41PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2007
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I am personally excited by the new martial choices. The Slayer and the Thief seem like really fun ideas, and I like the fact that we finally are getting something different. The homogenization of classes was my big problem with 4e. The fact that something different is available with a new mechanical style of play is, in my opinion, a very good thing. With all of the neat class abilities and modifiers in play, basic attacks are going to a helluva lotta fun, and allow for different classes to feel... different.
?? Thats what I like about 4E I never understood why every class has to be that different. Each class in 4e is different but each is similiar enough that you learn one class and you can play any class. Id never introduce a new player using essentials because its different than 4e Id introduce them using 4e which is simple enough. I dont see it as a good thing the more diffrences you have the less balanced its going to be. There is NO way these essentials classes are going to be balanced they will be either under powered or over powered and break the game.
To each their own, really. If you like the fact that 4e classes are all the same(ish) then by all means, more power to you. What you need to understand is that there are people (like myself) that aren't so fond of it. I like different classes with different abilities. I like to be able to play different classes and have them feel, act, and work differently.
You say that there is NO way there will be balance, but you don't know that, you are simply assuming that, rightly or wrongly. I disagree, I think that it's not all that difficult to have a decent semblance of balance, at least as solid as what exists in 4e right now.
Regardless, I personally would take fun over perfect balance because of homogenization. But that's just my opinion.
the 4e classes already feel different and act diffrent in play though you dont need different mechanics for that. Just different power sets, and class features.
and yet the essentials classes have not changed anything fundamental in the game, they use the existing mechanics. they have not added new actions types or anything that requires new mechanics.
Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.
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