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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 9:24AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2010
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This is in no way meant to be flammatory, please keep the comments positive. I love 4e embraced it hardcore. At first WotC "hinted" that Essentials would not replace 4e but be the basic set to Advance Dungeons and Dragons of years gone by. But the more I hear and see, it looks like 4e will no longer be supported, every book for D&D so far looks to be Essentials. Sure the Modules and the upcoming Monster Vault aren't going to be affected by edition 4.0 or 4.125, but the way player characters are being made is. Don't get me wrong, I want to embrace it, I will pick up either the Rules Compendium or Players Guide today, but so far it doesn't look good for the 4.0 crowd.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 9:31AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2008
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First off, you need to cite what "direction for 4e" means. What direction do you believe essentials is taking 4e.
Secondly, you need to look a bit further... and maybe wait a bit.
There's Heroes of Shadow and Heroes of Heroes(?)... stuff that suposedly supports the entire of D&D.
There's no evidence that anything coming out in the future doesn't support the old stuff. You've just got one constantly evovling game that's D&D 4e.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 9:43AM
#3
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4E and essentials are the same darn thing.
For Reals.
Essentials is as much a direction as saying psionic classes are a direction and the Psionic Powers book means the non-augument classes are clearly not going to be supported.
It is pants on the head sillyness.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 9:49AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2010
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That I can understand, but what I see is Essentials is already modifiying core 4e rules, to match the gameplay of Essentials. That is my concern. Look at the rules update. The changes are subtle, some good, some not so good. But most are good. My concern is the eventual crossover to Essentials. Right now they say oh you don't have to play Essentials if you don't want to, but further down the road this may not be the case, as rules are updated and made to fall in line with Essentials.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 9:50AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2007
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4E and essentials are the same darn thing.
For Reals.
Essentials is as much a direction as saying psionic classes are a direction and the Psionic Powers book means the non-augument classes are clearly not going to be supported.
It is pants on the head sillyness.
PHB3 was not the 'new core', it was definitely not an intro to new players, and its classes were not clones of the existing classes. If find it funny that the Seeker and Runepriest were hated on for being 'uninspired" and adding nothing new when the subclasses do the same thing.
They are not the same darn thing, 4e essentials on is called "revised edition" on the books even. And flammy threads that talk about 4e and Essentials have been closed for "Edition Wars".
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 10:02AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Mar 21, 2001
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Sneak attack for 4e and Essentials is now an Encounter power.
i really dont know what you mean by this. When i think encounter power i think once per encounter. The new sneak attack can be used more than it used to be able to, not less
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 10:10AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2010
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got confused there for a second, yes you're right.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 10:17AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2007
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That I can understand, but what I see is Essentials is already modifiying core 4e rules, to match the gameplay of Essentials. That is my concern. Look at the rules update. The changes are subtle, some good, some not so good. Sneak attack for 4e and Essentials is now an Encounter power. My concern is the eventual crossover to Essentials. Right now they say oh you don't have to play Essentials if you don't want to, but further down the road this may not be the case, as rules are updated and made to fall in line with Essentials.
Where the heck are you getting that?
Backstab is an Encounter power possessed by the new Thief build (to make up for the fact that they do not get to choose Encounter powers).
Sneak Attack has received errata to bring it in line with the Class Feature as written in the Thief build, which is 1/turn, as opposed to 1/round. Current Artful Dodgers, Brutal Scoundrels, Ruthless Ruffians, Daring Acrobats and Cunning Sneaks receive the benefit of this errata as much as the Thief does. There is nothing in the errata to suggest "Encounter Power," at all.
Since the errata does not say anything about Backstab, and that you confused it with Sneak Attack, means one of two things. Either you did not read the errata and are reacting to hysteria, or you skimmed the document and are reacting to hysteria.
THE BIG CHANGE is Magic Item creation and Treasure Parcels, both of which are completely DM side rules changes.
Almost every other change makes your characters either more powerful or more versatile.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 10:28AM
#9
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That I can understand, but what I see is Essentials is already modifiying core 4e rules, to match the gameplay of Essentials. That is my concern. Look at the rules update. The changes are subtle, some good, some not so good. But most are good.
The rules updates do not "modify core 4E to match the gameplay of Essentials".
Essentials gameplay is IDENTICAL to "core 4E" gameplay. So when a rules update is made for 4E, it is also made for Essentials, because they are the same game! Cart before horse.
My concern is the eventual crossover to Essentials.
This is literally meaningless. Essentials is a series of Fourth Edition D&D products. This is like saying "I'm worried about the eventual crossover to PHB2".
Right now they say oh you don't have to play Essentials if you don't want to, but further down the road this may not be the case, as rules are updated and made to fall in line with Essentials.
You do know that Essentials is a 10 products line, right? It isn't going to be produced after those 10 products (Which, btw, includes a set of dice, and about 3 sets of tiles).
Your fears are caused by one thing; Thinking that Essentials is anything other than a 4E suppliment series. If you looked at Essentials as what it is, which is a set of suppliments for 4E, you would never be fearing things like this. You wouldn't be thinking things like "The rules updates is to make the normal 4E like Essentials!" if you hadn't already worked yourself up pretending it was a new game, because then you'd just say "oh, rules update" rather than "converting 4E to the new game!". It absolutly comes down to you.
EVERY DAY IS HORRIBLE POST DAY ON THE D&D FORUMS.
Everything makes me ANGRY (ESPECIALLY you, reader)
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3 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2010 - 10:38AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2006
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It'll sell, that's why. Also, trade sized books in paper back. They aren't quite as durable, but cheaper AND I can keep them all on the table at the same time? Goddamn, so great. It also does a bunch of things wizards wants. It provides an engine for introducing new players and in a fairly simple way. For the older ones, new class builds, rule updates, and books with the errata included are more than good enough. It also gives them a way to easily do a bunch of updating, rather than printing them in PHB4.
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