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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 12:34PM
#241
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somewhere deep inside i knew that was the one part you would quote
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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 12:35PM
#242
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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It is mostly just psychological, but it's also looking far into the future. Basically, I enjoy using those rules, and if they are official (and Rodney confirmed that they are), I just kinda want them to be included with the rest of the official rules, both to share what I enjoy with newbies, and also just for the sake of completeness.
The original core books said that this was our game too. It doesn't feel like that anymore.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 12:38PM
#243
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2010
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@frothsof:
Well, naturally... that's the part where I think you made a wrong turn. The rest? Perfectly sound, but it would have no bearing on whether or not anybody else would think it was a marketing ploy.
...and that's the news from Lake 4th Edition, where the Gnomes are strong, the Half-Orcs are good-looking, and all the PCs are above average.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 12:56PM
#244
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2002
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If you like the old rules better, what exactly is the benefit to knowing that they're "official" or not, if it's not just psychological?
It's long been a standard for gamers to advertise their games as "official rules only", "core rules only" or "no house-rules". It's partially psychological, and partially so everyone knows what the rules will be before hand.
Not everyone plays in a single non-organized play game, or even plays with folks they know well and can expect to be on the same page as them for house-rules.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 1:17PM
#245
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2010
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i dont think anyone would have found it money grubber to add a list of the available books in the appendix (with a sentence long explanation).
Here's the thing.
Essentials are being positioned as "evergreen" - meaning they are intended to stay in print and available.
Other books? Are NOT.
Right now it's easy to find, say, Martial Power.
That doesn't mean it will stay easy.
For comparison, DU4 Arcane Towers dungeon tile set. Costs $10.
Was release 14 months ago. It is NOT being reprinted, and never was intended to be.
And now it's become scarce enough that it's $30 most places. That will only go up.
So what happens when Martial Power is out of print and hard to find?
Someone picks up the RC, and they see a rule reference to an OOP book they are unable to buy.
If that was me, I'd be pretty pissed. If instead it says there are other books with more shinies? That's cool. I can then look around and see what books are out there.
Pretty much, making any direct references to another book creates a dependency on that other book. They're actively avoiding that with the RC.
AlexandraErin: If last season was any indication, I think Encounters is pretty much the elemental opposite of "organized" play!
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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 1:22PM
#246
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2010
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@FitzNightEyes:
But if it "turns out" (the suspense, it is slowly killing me) that both treasure options are official then that's something that still has to be clarified at the start of the game, isn't it? Just like if a campaign is using inherent bonuses or not.
Of course someone can jump up here and say that this is exactly why it's ridiculous to say that both are official, at the very least one must be the official rules and the other no better than optional... the whole thing gives me a headache.
And all of this is ignoring the fact that whether the DM is rolling on the table or assigning treasures the old way could be utterly invisible to players, who only see the end result.
...and that's the news from Lake 4th Edition, where the Gnomes are strong, the Half-Orcs are good-looking, and all the PCs are above average.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 1:34PM
#247
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i dont think anyone would have found it money grubber to add a list of the available books in the appendix (with a sentence long explanation).
Here's the thing.
Essentials are being positioned as "evergreen" - meaning they are intended to stay in print and available.
Other books? Are NOT.
Right now it's easy to find, say, Martial Power.
That doesn't mean it will stay easy.
For comparison, DU4 Arcane Towers dungeon tile set. Costs $10.
Was release 14 months ago. It is NOT being reprinted, and never was intended to be.
And now it's become scarce enough that it's $30 most places. That will only go up.
So what happens when Martial Power is out of print and hard to find?
Someone picks up the RC, and they see a rule reference to an OOP book they are unable to buy.
If that was me, I'd be pretty pissed. If instead it says there are other books with more shinies? That's cool. I can then look around and see what books are out there.
Pretty much, making any direct references to another book creates a dependency on that other book. They're actively avoiding that with the RC.
yet they mention non essentials products liberally. are you saying the references to novels create a dependancy on them? they list the campaign settings such as forgotten realms...is this actively avoiding old material? they even mention books that havent come out yet and arent part of essentials.
they went halfway, they should have finished the job imo. as it stands its still the best value they ever put out but there was room to make it more valuable to a new player
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3 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2010 - 11:00PM
#248
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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Let's not do the Core vs core route again, as it begins to include the stuff from Dragon then the discussion quickly deteriorates.
The Rules within the pages of that book is organized, indexed and presented for quick reference and gathered for ease of use. If you wanted an encylopedia of D&D rules,
such as what the Rules Compendium is supposed to be according to the guy at WotC that all the RPG designers report to
you can go to the DDi service and use the Compendium
Which doesn't have all the rules
, or type it all out from all the books you have, make the Errata changes, and print them out and put them in the three or four binders it would take to carry them in.
Bear a huge burden of work in order to deliver what the aforementioned boss at WotC claims the Rules Compendium is, but not be able to share it without violating copyright.
Not sure why this is hard to understand.
One thing that is hard to understand is why you assume that the boss of the game designers is wrong.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 5:03PM
#249
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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So, Warrl, your saying this was supposed to be ever rule ever created for 4th edition, a list of every power for every class, and any other such things, like EQ lists and such?
Did you want all ten volumes?
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 5:21PM
#250
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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If you like the old rules better, what exactly is the benefit to knowing that they're "official" or not, if it's not just psychological?
It's long been a standard for gamers to advertise their games as "official rules only", "core rules only" or "no house-rules". It's partially psychological, and partially so everyone knows what the rules will be before hand.
Not everyone plays in a single non-organized play game, or even plays with folks they know well and can expect to be on the same page as them for house-rules.
For instance, I run games at conventions - there are 3 cons in my general area, plus a club I'm in runs a 'mini-con.' It's not practical for me to put a house-rules document in a game description but I can put something like 'core only' - so it's helpful if 'core only' means something. With 4e, it prettymuch stopped meaning anything. The defualt for 4e, I think, is Character-Builder 'complete & legal' wich is very inclusive. As a result, I just use pre-gens when I run 4e at a con.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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