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2 years ago  ::  Jul 15, 2011 - 12:47AM #11
thespaceinvader
Date Joined: Oct 28, 2010
Posts: 9,667

Jul 14, 2011 -- 7:24PM, Calion wrote:

Jul 14, 2011 -- 4:53PM, thespaceinvader wrote:

It doesn't say you can't use it as a shield and attack in the same round.


p. 214, PHB: "you can’t use your shield hand to make attacks."
It's not a shield.  And it explicitly says your hand is free, where a light shield specifies that it's free only to hold objects, not to wield them.

It doesn't say it loses its light shield property when you use it alongside another melee weapon, nor that you can't use it as a light shield whilst holding another melee weapon in that hand.


See above.

I can't really argue with its superiority over the tortoise blade, but price is irrelevant past first level, because magic weapons ignore the item's base price entirely.


Dark Sun characters rarely get magic items that quickly.

Furthermore, it doesn't say whether you have to be proficient in light shields to use it as such.


PHB p. 213-14: "If you're not proficient with a shield, you don't gain the shield bonus to your AC or Reflex defense."

Nor, indeed, is the question of whether characters proficienct with light shield can wear it as a shield and keep their hand free


DSCS FAQ:"You would be able to grab with a hand equipped with a gauntlet axe"
But can you wield a 2-handed weapon whilst wielding a gauntlet axe?  Can you wield an off-hand weapon whilst wielding a gauntlet axe?  Does it make a difference whether you're using it as a shield or as a weapon or both?  If your hand is free to grab, it's free to wield weapons, which as you mention above conflicts with the usual definition of light shields - but the GA isn't a light shield so...

, which is certainly implied, and is without penalty unless you actually want to use it as a weapon


I'm not sure what you mean by that.

, and makes it superior to a normal light shield clarified - you don't take any penalties for not being proficient with it as a weapon if you don't try to hit anybody with it.


I don't understand what that means either. You don't take any penalties for not being proficient with a rock until you try to hit someone with it either.
Can you use a GA as a shield if you're not proficient with it as a weapon, is the main question.  It's superior to a normal light shield because it explicitly leaves your hand free.
 

It doesn't say how, or indeed if, you can leave the hand free whilst enchanting it as a weapon.


Why would you be wearing it while you were enchanting it? Or have I mistaken your meaning?
Can you use a GA enchanted as a weapon and keep a free hand?

Defensive does stack with its properties as a Light Shield


Says who? What's your logic for this?
Nothing says it doesn't, and Defensive's bonus to AC is untyped, where a light shield provides a shield bonus.  There's nothing to indicate it's not supposed to stack, and it does by the normal bonus-stacking rules.

, but probably isn't intended to.  What happens if you enchant it with a Light Shield enchantment that functions as a weapon?


That goes beyond my diagnosis  

Overall, I suspect that the person who wrote it didn't intend that the mention of shields in the item's text be intended to refer to the item "Light Shield", merely to supply flavour for the item having the Defensive property.


I think you're right there. It is very sloppy. But I don't think it's ambiguous, even though I don't believe that the mechanics as presented are the mechanics intended. Getting rid of the "light shield" bit would fix the problem, I think.

It's in dire need of clarification.


True that.



Yeah.  I think I'd disagree that it's not ambiguous.  There simply aren't clear rules to support 'weapon that counts as light shield, can be enchanted as arms slot, and leaves hand free for grabbing (and therefore weapon wielding)'.

Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part.
The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight.

CB != rules source.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2011 - 1:54PM #12
Jadewire
Date Joined: Sep 20, 2009
Posts: 34
Here's the best we could come up with in our little circle:

A Gauntlet Axe counts as a melee weapon in that hand.

You can choose to forgo having the weapon in that hand to instead use it as a base light shield, switching back and forth whenever you want as a minor action. It can benefit from either axe feats or shield feats depending on "mode", but not both at once.

The hand is free to maniuplate or grab objects - this includes making a grab attack on an enemy - but not to pick up and wield them (i.e. you could pull a lever on a wall, but you couldn't have the gauntlet axe in off-hand AND carry a handaxe in the same one)

The whole "enchanted as arms slot item" is basically ignored, since if you're going to have Iron Armbands of Power, you're just going to have the IAP. As near as we can tell this basically just makes a loophole for a character that needs one hand free (certain Fighter builds spring to mind) to also randomly have an unenchanted off-hand weapon when he wants.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2011 - 2:14PM #13
thespaceinvader
Date Joined: Oct 28, 2010
Posts: 9,667
It got errated this month, it no longer counts as a light shield.

So that's one of the problems sorted.  Now there's only things like defensive working on weapons that are wielded in hand, which this isn't.  Or is.  Maybe.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part.
The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight.

CB != rules source.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 07, 2012 - 7:58AM #14
Kees
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2011
Posts: 101
I prefer the tortoise blade. Get the rhythm enchantment on it and you have normal shield which you can attack with. Great for fighters who want the double marking from dual strike and do not want to give up there shield bonus.
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