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Aug 25, 2010 -- 2:36AM, Kaldric wrote:

...their expensive, conceptually bloodily violent, educationally near-valueless sedentary entertainment...

No more violent than any other form of media.
Promotes math
Logical thinking
Creative thinking
Decision-making skills
Cooperation
Social skills

And just because the game is played while sitting doesn't mean the game is passive.  Studies have shown that people who regularly stimulate the creative and analytical segments of their brain are healthier and live longer and more productive lives.

Hardly valueless...

Aug 25, 2010 -- 3:31AM, Kaldric wrote:

As an aside to the previous post - there was a Saracen/pagan/Middle Eastern/African knight of the round table. Depending on the reading, Palomides/Palomedes was black.

And yet for some reason he didn't make it in the common imaginary.

My point is simply that it's silly to ask WotC to bring Gilgamesh into King Arthur's world. Creating a setting for Gilgamesh's world wouldn't be so, but they are already doing it. The complaint that "there's too much white people in medieval Europe" can't be received.

Eh, I'd say that generic run of the mill D&D doesn't resemble Europe.  Sure, at one point mideival Europe was the primary source of inspiration, in that Tolkien was "European", but even that is a bit of a misnomer.

I'd posit that classic D&D, and Tolkien and other mythic high fantasy for that matter, only seemed European because of a temperate climate and light skinned characters.

But now, 30 years out and tons more references and sources of inspiration, I'd hesitate to put D&D into any ethnic box.  Certainly, the text depicts a multi-cultural world.  Humans are described as having as varied of skin tones as our real world, yet most every picture is of a white person.  Why the disconnect?  If humans are supposedly as varied as they are described, why not show it?

I think it's unfair to say that the D&D books can't contain certain imagery because their setting is based on medieval Europe. The setting in the core D&D books has always been vaguely described, in part because it is supposed to be a blank canvas on which each gaming group can create their own setting.

More to the point, I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that the books should reflect the interests of those who play the game. There were no tieflings and dragonborn in medieval Europe, yet the designers of 4th Edition added them to the core rulebooks because they thought it would accurately reflect what gamers think of as an exciting fantasy world. (In fact, some claim that they added them specifically to attract MMO players.)

Does this mean that WotC would have to add humans of all colors to their books in order to attract people from all parts of society? As several users have mentioned, it's hardly a silver bullet—I don't think anyone made that claim.

That being said, I don't think it's enough to say that D&D reflects a certain type of setting, and that anyone should be able to enjoy that no matter where they're coming from. After all, few male gamers would be able to enjoy a stereotypically female Player's Handbook set in pink headings and dominated by colorful images of fairies and elves. Obviously, presentation matters, so I think it's unfair to reject any and all requests that D&D should reflect the people who play the game, as well as the people who could be interested in playing the game.

Aug 25, 2010 -- 3:16AM, VisanidethDM wrote:

I doubt anyone would accuse Rokugan/L5R of being racist because it portrays its heroes with eastern features.

No, because it is quite open about it's source of inspiration.  As I've previously said, I don't think D&D is all that "European" anymore.  Was Jack Vance European?  Lieber?  Burroughs?  I believe they only seem European because of the general complexion of the characters' skin, and a lack of explicitly stating "This setting is Asian/Middle Eastern/Pacific Islander/African etc.  it is European because it's not anything else.

And then we're back to things being white by default.

We don't need more black people in fantasy medieval Europe (even if they can fit quite well, as I've played quite literally in fantasy medieval Europe and the best character in the group was a black man from Africa); if anything, we need more adventures set into an environment where either black heroes make sense on their own (such as an extremely multicultural fantasy world - see Eberron and its melting pot, and the art fully represents it) or where simply black heroes are portrayed in the equivalent of the translation of european history that most fantasy settings show. We don't need a black Knight of the Round - not only it doesn't make sense, it's also risking of just being a white guy painted black. If anything we need D&D settings that are closer to representing a situation where black fantasy men and women are in the forefront. Painting some of the FR people black would be racist in my eyes; creating a setting where the white ethnicity isn't in the forefront or even takes a back seat is much more interesting, and on this, I'd point you to the recently released Dark Sun setting, which features basically every ethnic group and where the white caucasian dude is an endangered species.

A quick browse through my Eberron books doesn't feel anymore "ethnic" than base D&D, although I haven't done an exhaustive comparison.  I do see some cultures that are vaguely analogous to real world non-white cultures, but most of these are non-human cultures, like the Orcs in the Eldeen Reaches.

Dark Sun certainly feels more ethnic, with very little European culture filtering in.  Hellenic Balic comes to mind, but is joined by Chinese Nibenay, African Gulg, Mezo-American Draj, Mesopotamian Urik etc.  Still, I don't see much in the way of ethnic characters beyond some of the SKs and costume.  Most races are either fair skinned or completely alien, like Half-Giants/Goliaths or Thri-kreen.  Aside from race, the setting is described as mutating people (Pristine Tower does that right?) with fangs or blue skin or other wierd stuff.  Where's my blue skinned human?