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2 years ago ::
May 20, 2011 - 12:37PM
#451
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2009
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My question was going to be that
What's different between 4e and Esstentials but i don't think there is one, not really.
There is a huge difference.
4e Feat: Implement Expertise
+1 to attack rolls with chosen implement
Essentials Feat: Staff Expertise
You gain a +1 feat bonus to the attack rolls of implement and weapon powers that you use with a staff.
This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
In addition, when you make a ranged or an area attack with a staff as an implement, you don't provoke opportunity attacks for doing so.
When you make a melee weapon attack with a staff, the weapon's reach for that attack increases by 1.
Just as an example.
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2 years ago ::
May 20, 2011 - 2:22PM
#452
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My question was going to be that
What's different between 4e and Esstentials but i don't think there is one, not really.
There is a huge difference.
4e Feat: Implement Expertise
+1 to attack rolls with chosen implement
Essentials Feat: Staff Expertise
You gain a +1 feat bonus to the attack rolls of implement and weapon powers that you use with a staff.
This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
In addition, when you make a ranged or an area attack with a staff as an implement, you don't provoke opportunity attacks for doing so.
When you make a melee weapon attack with a staff, the weapon's reach for that attack increases by 1.
Just as an example.
That's actually not true – in the original feat, you scaled as well, but not until 15th level and 25th level. The only thing lacking is the additional feature (so they could print the implement expertise feat as a single feat in the books, as opposed to one for each weapon or implement group in the redo of these feats post-Essentials.
The most important difference above is that Staff Expertise works for you as an Implement and a Weapon expertise, as opposed to requiring two feats or Versatile Expertise. UNFORTUNATELY, Light Blade Expertise doesn't work the same way, and Dagger Sorcerers are shafted to using Versatile Expertise to cover their scaling accuracy bonuses.
A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe
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2 years ago ::
May 20, 2011 - 10:17PM
#453
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2009
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My question was going to be that
What's different between 4e and Esstentials but i don't think there is one, not really.
There is a huge difference.
4e Feat: Implement Expertise
+1 to attack rolls with chosen implement
Essentials Feat: Staff Expertise
You gain a +1 feat bonus to the attack rolls of implement and weapon powers that you use with a staff.
This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
In addition, when you make a ranged or an area attack with a staff as an implement, you don't provoke opportunity attacks for doing so.
When you make a melee weapon attack with a staff, the weapon's reach for that attack increases by 1.
Just as an example.
That's actually not true – in the original feat, you scaled as well, but not until 15th level and 25th level. The only thing lacking is the additional feature (so they could print the implement expertise feat as a single feat in the books, as opposed to one for each weapon or implement group in the redo of these feats post-Essentials.
The most important difference above is that Staff Expertise works for you as an Implement and a Weapon expertise, as opposed to requiring two feats or Versatile Expertise. UNFORTUNATELY, Light Blade Expertise doesn't work the same way, and Dagger Sorcerers are shafted to using Versatile Expertise to cover their scaling accuracy bonuses.
Sorry, but being able to avoid opportunity attacks while using ranged abilities is a huge difference. Not to mention the reach, or getting the attack bonus 4 levels earlier... The essentials feat is a 4e feat on steroids.
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2 years ago ::
May 20, 2011 - 10:23PM
#454
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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My question was going to be that
What's different between 4e and Esstentials but i don't think there is one, not really.
There is a huge difference.
4e Feat: Implement Expertise
+1 to attack rolls with chosen implement
Essentials Feat: Staff Expertise
You gain a +1 feat bonus to the attack rolls of implement and weapon powers that you use with a staff.
This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
In addition, when you make a ranged or an area attack with a staff as an implement, you don't provoke opportunity attacks for doing so.
When you make a melee weapon attack with a staff, the weapon's reach for that attack increases by 1.
Just as an example.
I actually have an answer for this because Mearls explained the rational. I don't agree with him in the slightest but here is his reasoning as best as I can explain and remember it:
Most players and DMs regard the +1 to hit per tier as a math-fix (which it is and IIRC some former Devs have admitted as much) which means that players are very unhappy about being forced to take a math-fix feat as one of their precious feats.
The Mearl/Wotc Solution: We will make this math-fix feat worth two feats by adding a feat's worth of ability on TOP of the scaling 'to hit' bonus so you don't feel cheated.
I completely disagree with the rational, but there it is.
-Polaris
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2 years ago ::
May 21, 2011 - 4:02PM
#455
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I didn't say I disagreed that the additional feature wasn't great (and makes many of the feats worth it, rather than just being a math-fix feat); I said that what you said about the original feat wasn't true: the original feat scales by tier as well; it's not just a +1 bonus.
That said, I hate the math-fix feats. However, I don't know if I would NECESSARILY take them if they didn't give me a scaling to-hit bonus as well as the really awesome feature. The really awesome feature might be replaced for something more thematic in my feat slots.
But since the math-fix is in there, I basically have to take the feat if I want to do my job (at least, if my job involves being accurate – which means the feats are a necessity for Strikers and most Defenders and Controllers, but only about 3/4 of Leaders.
A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe
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2 years ago ::
May 21, 2011 - 9:31PM
#456
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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The problem with that 'solution,' is that the new Expertise Feats are rather a mixed bag. Staff Expertise is awesome. Axe Expertise is pretty nice. Heavy Blade Expertise is blah. Bow Expertise is great for a striker, less great for a Hunter who's hoping to use Rapid Shot frequently.
So, not only /must/ you pay the feat tax, the 'subsidy,' you get in return could end up dictating your weapon choice...
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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2 years ago ::
Jun 07, 2011 - 5:48AM
#457
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Axe Expertise is redundant to nearly all of the good axes anyway.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 07, 2011 - 7:26AM
#458
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Axe Expertise is redundant to nearly all of the good axes anyway.
Unless you get dice from elsewhere, like a horned helm, or a crit.
Still, it's not wonderful, but not completely useless.
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my builds
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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