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3 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2010 - 10:01PM
#1
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Dragon 390
Countdown to Essentials
Powers, Implements, Feats…By Mike Mearls Today, Mike talks about major revisions that occur in Essentials for the game moving forward: Implements now work like weapons; rules updates for powers; versatile racial ability score modifiers and the Human Racial Power; feat categories and replacements; and the magic item revision mentioned at Gencon. Talk about this preview column here.
A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe
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3 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2010 - 10:25PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2007
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There've been a lot of threads calling doom and gloom about essentials, and I've for the most part ignored them.  But the change to Melee Training is the first thing that worries me.  So basically, Battleminds and Swordmages get a nerf because 3e grognards don't like having powers and want to play characters whose sole function is 'I hit it with my sword'?
Whee. Fun.Â
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3 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2010 - 10:41PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 26, 2009
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Hooray for nerfing feats that weren't even remotely overpowered or outrageous at all. And oh boy, swordmages get beaten down even more.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2010 - 11:33PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 14, 2004
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Won't Swordmages still have Intelligent Blademaster, though?
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3 years ago ::
Aug 09, 2010 - 12:00AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2004
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I think the update to Melee Training feat should not be done.
Having full attack roll bonus but only half damage bonus is .... too weak. MT was never be "must have" in my games but a useful option. I guess this update will change this feat from a useful one into a worthless one.
If they think giving good melee basic attack with one feat is too much, they should also update Power of Skill feat. That one is more powerful.
In one game I am attending, there is an avenger of Erathis who took Melee Training. In another game I am DMing, another avenger just took Power of Skill feat because she worship Ioun, who has skill domain.
I am afraid that this change encourage players to choose their PC's deity just for having good domain feat, not for player's taste. This problem is not new, but not something should be made more significant.
Plus, IMHO, this one is another "over-update". Didn't Mike say he is trying to reduce the number of updates? This feat is NOT causing that big problem at this moment. 4e is already becoming infamous for having tons of updates. Some even say current rulebooks are almost useless because of it. Update should be only done, when something is REALLY causing game-balance issue.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 09, 2010 - 12:22AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2004
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Won't Swordmages still have Intelligent Blademaster, though?
Yes they have. And charisma paladin already have an at-will CHA weapon power which can be usable as a melee basic attack. The real ones who suffer from this change will be Battleminds.
And maybe Monks. Even now they have almost no use for their "monk unarmed strike" class feature. If they cannot have a way to use their Dex for melee basic attack, then it will become "why on earth be there?" class feature.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 09, 2010 - 1:41AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2008
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All of these changes sound realy good to me. Melee training sounded kinda bad at first, until I gave it a few seconds thought. At level 30, the most damage you will give up to this nerf is 5. That doesn't even register. And the classes who use this feat are using it for extra attacks beyond their regular standard action per round. When I think about that, it makes me wonder why the feat wasn't always like it's soon going to be.
I am currently playing a rogue with melee training. I will not be retraining it. I guess it can't be all that bad then (for me anyway).
Anyway, after reading this latest article and seeing the 2011 product list, it has really hit home that D&D is in very good hands with Mearls at the helm.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 09, 2010 - 1:45AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2001
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Melee Training messed with class balance a little, and was poised to break the Essentials Martial classes before they'd even hit print. The nerf is mild. 'Updating' it to replace STR for attack rolls /only/, and leaving STR for damage would have been perfectly reasonable.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? Join the Old Guard of 4e"You want The Tooth? You can't handle The Tooth!" - Dahlver-Nar. "If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax
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3 years ago ::
Aug 09, 2010 - 3:39AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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this article raised a question about the feats change. When the essentials product come out will we have two system of feats working along each other ? the essentials feat on one side with no tier and the previous feats with tiers systems ?
or does the previous feats lose their tiers classification ?
if so how are they gonna be updated ?
in the future (the other non-essential product, ex: primal power 3), the feats in those supplement will be tiered or not ? Â
if not , the tier system become kinda unwanted and so those feats will need to revised , no ?
as i said, questions...questions...
Â
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3 years ago ::
Aug 09, 2010 - 3:56AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2004
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Melee Training messed with class balance a little, and was poised to break the Essentials Martial classes before they'd even hit print.Â
Would you please explain how Melee Training messed with class balance?
I understand that there are some builds which works better with Melee Training feat. But usually a build of one character alone does not give enough reason to take this feat.
Melee basic attack itself is, even with full ability modifiers for both attack and damage, the weakest kind of attack.
Even now, I see people take melee training only when,
1) The class's primal ability score is not STR
and
2) There is no other ways to use their primal or secondary ability score for making a melee basic attack (So no charisma-din, no avenger of skill domain deity)
and
3) There is a good chance to use melee basic attack often. This is usually done by having some special characters (like warlord) in the party.
I still can't understand why this feat must be nerfed down.
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