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3 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2010 - 7:06AM #151
VaultDweller
Date Joined: Aug 3, 2009
Posts: 1,379
I'd like to add myself to the bandwagon thanking Paolo for doing his best to be forthcoming with us.  I've been a subscriber for 13 months, and sir, you single-handedly have done more to calm me with respect to the state of D&DI than anything else in that time.

I'm still frustrated, yes.  I've been asking for improved support of custom content in the CB since I first started using it (the Insider page at that time did tout it as supporting house-ruled characters, which is an iffy statement).  I've been asking for Theme and Template support in the MB almost as long as the MB has existed.  I've been asking for the Compendium to be made more comprehensive for ages now (it's missing important elements like skill powers, diseases, templates).

These things still frustrate me, and will continue to frustrate me until they're implemented.  But, frustration aside, it is relieving to have a window (however small) in the stonewall we've been faced with thus far.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2010 - 7:35AM #152
Icharius
Date Joined: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 153

Aug 13, 2010 -- 8:40PM, PaoloM wrote:

Aug 13, 2010 -- 6:35PM, Jell_Moo wrote:

Aug 13, 2010 -- 5:42PM, PaoloM wrote:


WotC is not talking because they're not working on anything

I lead a team of six (soon seven) fantastically talented people. We ship content updates for all tools every month and update the website almost every day. These should not, in any way, shape or form, to be considered "routine" or trivial tasks. Content updates require resources for data entry, data verification, database schema updates, data translation, C++ coding, C# coding, WPF coding, QA, QA, QA and QA. Plus my overhead




C#? WPF?

Um... Please tell me that this is strictly for the upkeep of current tools like the character builder? Or can we expect any future tools that you may or may not be working on, that may or may not be announced soon, to once again be Windows exclusive? With Mac and Linux users left out in the cold... Not to mention emerging portable technologies.

Please tell me I am reading way too much into that statement. 



I just listed the day to day activities for content updates, nothing more. I want to stress again how this task is so much more than just populating a database, there's a lot of custom coding work in order to accomodate the current ruleset. Actually, I have one very bright guy in my team who does only that, day in and day out.


Thanks Paolo,

It's good to know you got a good team and that you are proud of it...

I just want to know if you can tell me something without actually breaking any PR invisible wall:

Has the original masterplan of the tools presented back in the 2007 D&D experience day changed to other tools or other priorities?

If it has change, just say yes

that shouldn't be consider as a leak info from the PR PoV right?

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2010 - 3:50PM #153
DMaple
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: Mar 20, 2001
Posts: 1,419
Haven't WotC all ready offically said yes. Pretty much after their survey that showed the majority of people weren't interested in a gametable or character visualiser, but wanted more tools for to help with constructing adventures. Hence the Monster Builder, and hopefully an Encounter and Adventure builder to follow.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2010 - 6:32PM #154
Shemeska_the_Marauder
  • My Little Arcanaloth
Date Joined: Apr 21, 2003
Posts: 1,779

Aug 20, 2010 -- 3:50PM, DMaple wrote:

Haven't WotC all ready offically said yes. Pretty much after their survey that showed the majority of people weren't interested in a gametable or character visualiser, but wanted more tools for to help with constructing adventures. Hence the Monster Builder, and hopefully an Encounter and Adventure builder to follow.




I'm not sure if the survey had any impact except for rationalizing what had already been decided about the unfinished portions of the original DDI plans, and to give some options that were viable moving forward. They'd stopped working on the VTT well before that survey went out.

Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2010 - 9:37AM #155
Arilon
Date Joined: Mar 17, 2001
Posts: 351

Aug 13, 2010 -- 5:42PM, PaoloM wrote:

Ok. Let me see how I can reply to all this without getting fired. I don't want to sound apologetic, but I want to try to provide all the information I can:

WotC is not talking because they're afraid of the old PR disaster

It would be silly to say that this has no part in our decision; the promise and the lack of delivery is a terrible thing to happen to any organization. But this is only a part of why we're being silent. And I'm trying hard to make sure this situation will not happen in the future.

WotC is not talking because they're not working on anything

I lead a team of six (soon seven) fantastically talented people. We ship content updates for all tools every month and update the website almost every day. These should not, in any way, shape or form, to be considered "routine" or trivial tasks. Content updates require resources for data entry, data verification, database schema updates, data translation, C++ coding, C# coding, WPF coding, QA, QA, QA and QA. Plus my overhead

The way the D&D game is designed requires a lot of rules exception handling and custom coding. It's not just "entering some stuff in a database".

What's more, a part of my team is actively and exclusively working on new stuff. Trust me, we'd like to have more hours during the day.

WotC is not talking because they're afraid their "stuff" will be cancelled

While this may of course happen (an asteroid may hit Renton, WA, for example, or Torog may want to remind us where we sent him/it/her/whatever), we're a bit too deep into the process to reasonably expect that we won't ship what we're working on. But yeah, this is a fair point.

WotC is not talking because they don't know when they will ship something

Oh, I know exactly what and when (to the hour) we'll ship. The fact that I can't tell you this doesn't mean that I don't know it (hell, if I didn't know this, I would probably be browsing monster.com now. And no, I'm not browsing monster.com right now).

WotC is not talking because they don't know what people want

Lots of employees and volunteers read these and other forums. I check DDi General many times a day and read all messages in "interesting" topics. If there's one thing I can tell you guys, is that we are listening and we are willing to provide you with the best tools to enjoy your D&D games.

So why is WotC silent?

There are other reasons why I - or anyone else - can't talk about what we'll do. This decision has been made some time ago and it will stick until we're ready to show off. After that, I hope we'll be able to be more open.

Thank you all for listening




This.

No, it isn't the answer that some people want, but to me, it's a candid and straightfoward response the criticism WotC has received.  No, it won't make some people happy, but for me, I can accept it just fine.

It does not matter what WotC does here, it won't be enough.  If they said, "hey, we're going to realse Tool X on such-and-such a date," that wouldn't be enough.  The criticism would be, "sure, the've announced a new tool, but they don't tell us what it does."   There's no pleasing some people, and some people aren't happy unless they can just complain ad nauseum. 

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2010 - 3:07PM #156
Formulajh7
Date Joined: Jul 11, 2010
Posts: 7
The horrible and tragic reality is we will not see a visualizer or a dungeon builder until they release 5e. Which at this rate may be never.

Its painfully obvious that 6 -7 developers wont be creating the visualizer or the VTT. If you noticed they also went away from the miniatures line as well... They have no idea what there player community wants and are so focused on not hemorrhaging any more money that I'm quite sure there is a real chance we may never see a 5e. I for one hope to god that someone with enough money invests money into a table top rpg MMo style creates the tools and wipes DnD from the planet. If that happens then maybe some of the guys that truly love there job and are equally upset with WoTC can finnally go to a company that not only believes in the product but has the business sense to not self destruct like wotc did with 4e. 4e is actually not a terrible system but the marketing/implementation of 4e (especially the content in the starter books making the edition terrible and bland) was horrifically bad. Only when other books started trickling out did it somewhat redeem the system (I'm being very generous there.)

I cannot stress this enough though. Wizards of the Coast the Company DOESN'T CARE. Wake up! I'm sure a few of the employees may but the fact of the matter is wotc internal structure is setup counter product to expanding this product anyway. As a gamer I think most of us need to start hoping to god that someone else with enough money sees the void in the current market and gives us the product hundreds of thousands people are dying for. Which product?? The next evolution in table top story telling. We need an amazing sand box VTT with flushed out lore great rules (a real life mini option tying into the models you can use with the VTT would also be a huge plus!) There are millions of dollars begging to be gained from this. Its obvious WoTC doesnt see it.

Back to my point though. You wont be getting a VTT in 4e and its all because WoTC is not very good at making money witha product like DnD.. If it wasn't for Magic the gathering the company would already be in chapter 11.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2010 - 1:15AM #157
DOMD
Date Joined: Dec 28, 2009
Posts: 92

Sep 5, 2010 -- 3:07PM, Formulajh7 wrote:

Wizards of the Coast the Company DOESN'T CARE. Wake up!



WotC is a normal business and genuinely trying to make money. Some of their decisions didn't fare well with the community, and several decisions probably didn't actually lead to more revenue, but that's part of the whole process. You can argue about how well they listen to the community (I'm on your side here) but, similarly, you could argue that not listening is a valid business strategy (e.g. Nintendo has a tendency towards this).

Of course they care. They want to make a product we buy. That's how they make money.  They care whether we like it, whether we feel happy with them as a company, whether we feel our entitlements are met.

Personally, I think that concerning DDI they're not doing a very good job, but that doesn't make me shout the whole community should "wake up". That's conspiracy-freak-talk right there.

Moderated by ORC_Wyvern on Sep 07, 2010 - 08:12AM
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2010 - 6:38AM #158
Myztek
Date Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 1,240
Regarding the VTT:

WotC's survery may have said that people were more interested in other products, but that is not a great reason not to make the VTT.

People pay a subscription to Insider.  For their subscription, they gain access to new gaming materials as it is developed via Dungeon, Dragon, and the Compendium (as well as CB and MB updates).  However, of those five things, only one of them is well suited to an online subscription.  Which?  The Compendium.  Why? 

Because it is something that you lose if you stop the subscription.  You lose access to the information stored in the Compendium.  You keep everything else.  And, if you sign up for one month 6 months from now, you get the benefits of all 6 months you missed in the other 4 areas.

This provides a strong incentive (to the patient amongst us gamers) to just sign up for 1 month (or 2 months separated by 6 months) a year to Insider to update the CB and MB. 

However, if WotC releases a new product that also is only useful while the subscription is going on, it encourages people to continuosuly be members.  What products have they discussed meet that description?

A map tool?  Unlikely.  It would probably be a partner tool to the MB.  Sign up for one month and you've got it for the long term.

A campaign organizer?  Same.

A character visualizer?  It would probably just be part of the CB at this point, I think.

A virtual game table... BINGO!  That is something that you'd likely need to be a member of (or know someone that is a member of) to get regular access.  It provides that incentive to stay a regular member.

But what if people want other things more?  Who cares if they want other things more - the question in sales is not what do people want most.  It is what do people want enough to buy it.  And would people be incentivized by a good VTT to sign up/renew/subscribe/etc... to Insider to a level that makes it cost efficient?  WotC probably has a pretty good idea.
D&D & Boardgames
If I have everything I need to run great games for many years without repeating stuff, why do I need to buy anything right now?
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2010 - 7:54AM #159
Formulajh7
Date Joined: Jul 11, 2010
Posts: 7

Sep 7, 2010 -- 1:15AM, DOMD wrote:

Sep 5, 2010 -- 3:07PM, Formulajh7 wrote:

Wizards of the Coast the Company DOESN'T CARE. Wake up!



 WotC is a normal business and genuinely trying to make money. Some of their decisions didn't fare well with the community, and several decisions probably didn't actually lead to more revenue, but that's part of the whole process. You can argue about how well they listen to the community (I'm on your side here) but, similarly, you could argue that not listening is a valid business strategy (e.g. Nintendo has a tendency towards this).

Of course they care. They want to make a product we buy. That's how they make money.  They care whether we like it, whether we feel happy with them as a company, whether we feel our entitlements are met.

Personally, I think that concerning DDI they're not doing a very good job, but that doesn't make me shout the whole community should "wake up". That's conspiracy-freak-talk right there.




 There is no consipiracy. WOTC doesnt think the VTT is an equitable idea... Its becuase they are BAD at what they do in regards to this product. They are also not willing to risk anymore money in this as they arent making neraly as much as they thought they would. The Lovely part of all of that is they are the ones activly decreasing the brands value. The buisness isnt run paticularly well. I should know.

Anyway think about this as well. The survey they did was a horrible way of getting feedback as this community doesnt represent the player base as a whole at all. You are proof positive of that. 

Here it the reality though. You are not helping anything but bring the franchise further into the ground by trying to argue with people like myself. By now I thought sales would allow them to see how wrong they were with the direction there going. Obviously that isnt the case so at this point someone else needs to step in and compete or they need to hit rock bottom and somehow still have the capital to invest in the proper direction.

P.S. I wasnt calling for the whole community to wake up in all reality. I dont care if people even agree with me. It's not even the employees as Im sure there are those that actually do want to see the brand succeed. Im simply writing this so that hoepfully someone in the organziation considers it as I know for a fact people are fighting for it and its gotten slammed down multiple times. In which case Ill sum this entire thing up. 

Spend the capital build the VTT and start taking your brand in the proper direction or risk having this game die out. You either act now or down the line someone will build a company and take your player base from you.

The end.

Moderated by ORC_Wyvern on Sep 07, 2010 - 08:14AM
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2010 - 8:02AM #160
Nyarlathotep
  • Heroic Dungeon Master
Date Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 3,213
The number of backseat financial analysts on this board who know WOTC's business plans and financial situation better than the company does never ceases to amaze me.
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