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Sep 9, 2010 -- 8:01AM, Kalex_the_Omen wrote:

Sep 8, 2010 -- 2:33PM, Myztek wrote:

If you don't need the VTT and it wouldn't encourage you to buy Insider - fine.  That has no impact on the point that the benefits of Insider are not benefits well suited to a subscription service.

By the way, can you share the market survey results you're using to support your statements?

Sure.  As soon as you produce your market studies that back your statements.

What statements did I make that purport to be based upon market studies or popular opinion?

The bottom line is that a VTT is not, in fact, needed to play D&D.  Never has been.  For a small subset of users who, for instance, used to play with a face to face group, but now live in a different city, or in the middle of a war zone, or perhaps have taken up traveling with a bedouin tribe, VTT is a necessity to play D&D.  Once again however they are apparently not a significant enough subset of D&D players, or trust me...there would be a D&D VTT.

Need is a strong word.  We don't 'Need' anything more than 6 dice, 3 books, a pencil and some paper to play D&D. 

Rather than need, let's talk 'could make good use of'.  You've discussed people not in the same area as a core target audience.  Who else could use it?

* A group in the same location can use a VTT rather than figures/etc... to reduce costs without sacrificing quality of presentation if they have a nice TV, etc....  (Sofa and recliners in the living room at the TV can be more comfortable than sitting around a table, too).
* A DM that tends to plan adventures while away from his materials can use a VTT to mock up combats. 
* DMs can use a VTT and screen capture to provide images for their live games. 

Now if you'd rather sling snarky comments we can do that.  

OK. You're the Thundercats pet cat!  Wait... that was a Snarfy comment...

Or maybe, just maybe, you can do something that really might produce results.  Send WotC a letter expressing your viewpoint, and/or contact the other VTT companies out there and ask if their products suit your needs (you might be surprised), or if perhaps future versions of their product could include features you want to see.

Once again - you missed my initial point.  It flew right by you. 

My initial point was not, "ME WANNA VTT! WAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!"

It was: The services that are a part of Insider are not well suited to an online subscription model."

I provided the VTT as an example of something that is a good online subscription product as it requires continuous access.  It was an obvious example given that it was an advertised component of DDI before its release.

Sep 9, 2010 -- 11:55AM, EdPovi wrote:

Sep 9, 2010 -- 8:35AM, Myztek wrote:

...
It was: The services that are a part of Insider are not well suited to an online subscription model."
...

To be fair, I would say that digitial products such as the Dragon Mag and the Dungeon Mag are well suited to the subscription model.

They woked fine as real world subscription magazines.  However, they do not work as well as online subscription products.

Why? 

If I subscribed to Dragon for one month back when it was a physical magazine (if such a thing were possible), I would get 1 issue. 

If I subscribe to Insider for 1 month I get access to all of the issues ever produced. 

I had to pay for each issue of the physical magazine.  Now, I get all of the magazines by buying one.  If you place a value on maximizing benefit while minimizing cost, subscriptions for anything other than the minimum period allowed make no sense.

That is a mismatch between the product and the distribution methodology/sale format.

Not spoiling for a fight, just making corrections. 

RE: Market research: You said you could very well ask me what market studies I use when I asked which ones you used.   Your statements relied upon the opinions of the masses.  Mine relied upon mechanical differences not really based in opinion.  Market research tells you the opinion of the masses.   Thus, market research relates to your statements, but mine really stand alone.

RE: Need: Anyone can play D&D all by themself if they want, so a VTT is not NEEDED by any one person.  Even a group can do it all via text in emails.  However, that is not practical.  If you're looking for a practical way to play with a certain group of friends, you NEED a VTT to fulfill that goal in a practical fashion in the group is not located within reasonable travel distance or if they lack the non-virtual tools necessary.  I imagine that there have already been a few kids on a hike deep in the wilderness somewhere that have played a full D&D session with virtual figures and virtual maps on someone's iPad. 

RE: Make Good Use Of: Yes, 'making good use of' is not as essential as 'need', and in that sense the argument is diluted.  Just as we dilute the argument that we need to eat every day when we realize we could survive if we only ate once every three days.  Need vs want vs can use is a slippery slope that impacts product demand, but arguing where a product falls is often a waste of time.  The only real question for the company is a binary question: Will you buy or not.  They don;t care if you need it, want it, or really have no use for it at all - so long as you buy it.

And, for the record, the survey results said that MORE THAN 2/3 of users surveyed said they'd use a WotC VTT!  Nearly half said the VTT would make them more likely to reup their subscription!  Was it first in the list of things people thought they cared about?  No.  Were the numbers insignificant?  No (not unless you consider the 1, 2 and 3 pip sides of a d6 unimportant).

www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...

And this ignoring the fact that customers claims as to what would influence their buying decision are often very inconsistent with their actual behavior.   I use to keep a list of people on one of the DDM sites that swore that swore they'd quite the game if something were to occur who failed to quit when it did.  That was a LOOOOOOOOOOONG list.  Assuming the people are honest, understand the full details surrounding a situation, and have devoted enough consideration to understand how that details will impact their desires is pretty darn rare.  It isn't until people are actually in a given situation - such as I am when I have decided I will not renew in the current circumstances - do we know what people are doing.

RE: Online Subscription Model: What's to stop WotC from making a free VTT?  Their announced business plan, perhaps?  WotC said that the VTT would have paid and non-paid aspects to it.  A free minimal feature version would be there, but a more complex version with greater options and features would cost a bit more.  They discussed a few options including virtual figure purchases, DM access requiring Insider while player access was free, etc...

However, if WotC made a good VTT and gave people unlimited access to it for free, nobody would complain.  However, if they wish to derive revenue from it, it is a product that is well suited to a subscription model because the primary use requires immediate access and you can limit use to only subscribers.  That is not true of the magazine aspects of Insider.

My best bet is that the next tool in the queue will be an adventure/campaign manager.  I'm still baffled by the support for that idea as I've managed to maintain those aspects of my gaming just fine since I was 8 years old with nothing more than a couple folders, something to write on, and something with which to write.  Once again, it seems unlikely that a subscription will be required to maintain this benefit (unless, perhaps, they force you to store your campaign online and hold it hostage if you quit - something that would make me hesitate to put my stuff in their system).  Accordingly, I doubt it will have ANY actual impact on people maintaining a subscription, although people that dropped out may come back in the short term to get a copy.

Regardless, I'm probably not going to become a regular subscriber again until we see something in the Insider benefits that is worth the cost, well designed, well maintained and requires the subscription to obtain the benefit's primary use.  Until then, I may poke in once in a blue moon to get updates on some materials, but I am not paying a monthly subscription for something I can get cheaper in one sitting.