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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 11:07AM
#1381
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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I think there was a stealth LV 2 enc skill util power, which prevents enemies from detecting you, but only until end of your next turn.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 11:16AM
#1382
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Date Joined:
Jun 11, 2010
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Grayflower Perfume (lvl 10 consumable) helps you for a turn against blindsight.
Elude Senses is the power Crayne mentioned.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 8:10PM
#1383
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Date Joined:
Jan 26, 2013
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Okay I posted a variation of this question earlier but the issue has come up again in my game.
Can a player become hidden outside of an encounter when no enemies are present?
Here is the scenario: Players know that a caravan is going to be coming along down the road in the next 5 minutes. They want to set up an ambush. So they all hide and then wait. When do they roll their stealth checks? When they hide, or when the enemies are approaching and within detection range?
RAW states that using stealth is an opposed check. That seems to mean that you can "hide" when there are no enemies present, but you really don't become "hidden" until you succeed on your stealth check versus an enemy that could detect you.
I feel like the players should have at least some benefit considering they have 5 minutes to prepare their hiding spot. The RAW seems to preclude any benefit. (I don't mind giving them some kind of skill check bonus, I am just wondering about RAW ways to handle this.)
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:24PM
#1384
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Yes.
A stealth check is good against the entire universe, technically. Most of them fail outright due to absurd penalties for distance, but the mechanic of the check still works fine.
While a stealth check is an opposed check, it's against the passive perception of everyone else. Whatever the caravan is doing, they have their passive perception, and you check it against the stealth result once they get in range to notice it. It's the same process by which passive perception can detect the presence of a hidden trap in a dungeon - the trapmaker made a stealth check whenever he made it, and now that you're there, your perception goes up against that stealth result.
You are able to give out circumstance bonuses whenever you want. Prep time for an ambush site is a very good reason to give a bonus ot the stealth check.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 3:17AM
#1385
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Date Joined:
Jan 26, 2013
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Hmmmm. So a player can state he is hiding from the caravan that is still a mile away and would succeed on every stealth check at this point due to absurd distance penalties o the caravan's perception. The player keeps making stealth checks (versus the caravan's passive perception) twice every round until he rolls a natural 20, thus giving him hidden status with the maximal possible stealth check he can possibly obtain. Chances are that by the time the caravan comes within detection range, the player is now considered hidden with the maximum stealth check possible because he will roll a 20 sometime in the 100* rolls he gets to make.
(*Each round the player can take 2 move actions, choosing not to move but then being able to reroll the stealth check if he wishes.)
The rules do state that once you have attained hidden status, you remain hidden (with the last stealth check roll you made) until you do something that makes you no longer hidden. So this seems like a situation where a player is allowed to Take 20 for his stealth check.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 3:24AM
#1386
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Hmmmm. So a player can state he is hiding from the caravan that is still a mile away and would succeed on every stealth check at this point due to absurd distance penalties o the caravan's perception. The player keeps making stealth checks (versus the caravan's passive perception) twice every round until he rolls a natural 20, thus giving him hidden status with the maximal possible stealth check he can possibly obtain. Chances are that by the time the caravan comes within detection range, the player is now considered hidden with the maximum stealth check possible because he will roll a 20 sometime in the 100* rolls he gets to make.
(*Each round the player can take 2 move actions, choosing not to move but then being able to reroll the stealth check if he wishes.)
The rules do state that once you have attained hidden status, you remain hidden (with the last stealth check roll you made) until you do something that makes you no longer hidden. So this seems like a situation where a player is allowed to Take 20 for his stealth check.
The rules for Hidden only apply during an encounter, to other creatures in the current encounter. What you're talking about is Surprise, which is completely different.
Your party will prepare their ambush spot, and then, once there's something to ambush, roll Stealth to get their Surprise Round. Probably with a bonus.
Some or all of them may want to start the Surprise Round while Hidden. That's a second roll (although you might just let them use the same roll, and the same bonuses) that, again, waits for the creatures you're becoming Hidden from to exist.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 3:42AM
#1387
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Date Joined:
Jan 26, 2013
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The rules for Hidden only apply during an encounter, to other creatures in the current encounter. What you're talking about is Surprise, which is completely different.
Your party will prepare their ambush spot, and then, once there's something to ambush, roll Stealth to get their Surprise Round. Probably with a bonus.
Some or all of them may want to start the Surprise Round while Hidden. That's a second roll (although you might just let them use the same roll, and the same bonuses) that, again, waits for the creatures you're becoming Hidden from to exist.
Why do the rules for stealth only apply during an encounter? Other skills can be used outside of an encounter, so it can't be a general rule about skill use. There is nothing specifically stated in the stealth skill. In fact the Rules Compendium gives examples of using stealth outside of encounters for other things like hiding an object, so why not hiding yourself?
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 3:53AM
#1388
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The rules for Hidden only apply during an encounter, to other creatures in the current encounter. What you're talking about is Surprise, which is completely different.
Your party will prepare their ambush spot, and then, once there's something to ambush, roll Stealth to get their Surprise Round. Probably with a bonus.
Some or all of them may want to start the Surprise Round while Hidden. That's a second roll (although you might just let them use the same roll, and the same bonuses) that, again, waits for the creatures you're becoming Hidden from to exist.
Why do the rules for stealth only apply during an encounter?
The rules for Hidden only apply during an encounter, because they say they do. The state is not meaningful, outside an encounter.
Other skills can be used outside of an encounter, so it can't be a general rule about skill use. There is nothing specifically stated in the stealth skill. In fact the Rules Compendium gives examples of using stealth outside of encounters for other things like hiding an object, so why not hiding yourself?
Stealth has many applications, becoming Hidden during an encounter is just one of them. You can totally use Stealth outside of combat. And then, when it's time to become Hidden, you need to be in an Encounter and you need to be rolling to become Hidden from something, in order for your roll to be meaningful.
Your question is like "well, why can't I roll Athletics a lot until I get a 20, then just use that number once I reach the wall I'm trying to climb?" That's why you can't "just roll stealth a lot" and then use that number once you reach a creature you want to try being Hidden from.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 4:09AM
#1389
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Date Joined:
Jan 26, 2013
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The rules for Hidden only apply during an encounter, because they say they do. The state is not meaningful, outside an encounter.
I do not see anywhere in the rules for Hidden that say that Hidden only applies during an encounter.
Stealth has many applications, becoming Hidden during an encounter is just one of them. You can totally use Stealth outside of combat. And then, when it's time to become Hidden, you need to be in an Encounter and you need to be rolling to become Hidden from something, in order for your roll to be meaningful.
Your question is like "well, why can't I roll Athletics a lot until I get a 20, then just use that number once I reach the wall I'm trying to climb?" That's why you can't "just roll stealth a lot" and then use that number once you reach a creature you want to try being Hidden from.
This would be a totally different situation because there is bad outcome that needs to be resolved with each failed Athletics check when climbing a wall. (You fall each fail and possibly take damage.) There is no bad outcome for a failed Stealth check if the enemy is so far away that the penalty to their perception check makes every Stealth check a guaranteed success, ie no fails to resolve.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 5:03AM
#1390
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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The answer to that is 'if it doesn't matter, why are you rolling?' - at that point the PC is trying to roll stealth there's nothing to hide from and no penalty for failure, so no need to roll.
If they're trying to set an ambush, then that could range from a single group stealth roll (or possibly nature, dungeoneering or other appropriate substitute skills) to an entire skill challenge - but if you're trying to use stealth to set and ambush, you get one roll - if you roll low, then the ambush gets noticed at the point where it would trigger, and you don't get a surprise round, basically.
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