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Nov 21, 2012 -- 12:07PM, Malph wrote:

This also means for one encounter a day, he can use Hide from the Light and be pretty much perma-hidden (since he'll attack, move 2, roll stealth, then be hidden again).

And they'll know what square they lost him in, making their guesses REALLY easy.  And there's a bunch of other ways to find a Hidden person - walking into them, for example.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 12:07PM, Malph wrote:

On Page 281 PH, it talks about "Targeting What You Can't See". 

Whoah, stop right there.  That's not the rule.  That's an un-rule, one of the original corrections of the flaws in the original game.  That rule was changed in the very first errata document, because, well, it didn't work.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 12:07PM, Malph wrote:

It says: "At the end of a concealed creature's turn, it rolls Stealth opposed to your passive perception check.  If you beat it, you know there's a creature present you can't see, and you know the direction of it's location.  If you beat it by 10 or more, you know exactly what square the creature ended it's turn in." 

All of that?  Not rules.  Printed PHB is wrong. 

Nov 21, 2012 -- 12:07PM, Malph wrote:

Was this errataed?

Indeed it was.  And the corrected version was even printed, in PHB2, and is available as a free download from that link right there.

Specifically, the rules for Stealth are:

Stealth
Page 188:Replace the shaded text with the following
text.
Stealth:    The check is usually at the end of a move action,
but it can be at the end of any of the creature’s
actions that involve the creature moving.
✦  Opposed Check: Stealth vs. passive Perception. If
multiple enemies are present, your Stealth check is
opposed by each enemy’s passive Perception check.
If you move more than 2 squares during the move
action, you take a –5 penalty to the Stealth check. If
you run, the penalty is –10.
✦  Becoming Hidden:You can make a Stealth check
against an enemy only if you have superior cover or
total concealment against the enemy or if you’re out-side the enemy’s line of sight. Outside combat, the
DM can allow you to make a Stealth check against
a distracted enemy, even if you don’t have superior
cover or total concealment and aren’t outside the
enemy’s line of sight. The distracted enemy might be
focused on something in a different direction, allow-ing you to sneak up.
✦  Success: You are hidden, which means you are silent
and invisible to the enemy (see “Concealment” and
“Targeting What You Can’t See,” page 281).
✦  Failure: You can try again at the end of another move
action.
✦  Remaining Hidden: You remain hidden as long as
you meet these requirements.
Keep Out of Sight: If you no longer have any cover
or concealment against an enemy, you don’t remain
hidden from that enemy. You don’t need superior
cover, total concealment, or to stay outside line of
sight, but you do need some degree of cover or con-cealment to remain hidden. You can’t use another
creature as cover to remain hidden.
Keep Quiet:If you speak louder than a whisper
or otherwise draw attention to yourself, you don’t
remain hidden from any enemy that can hear you.
Keep Still:If you move more than 2 squares during
an action, you must make a new Stealth check with
a –5 penalty. If you run, the penalty is –10. If any
enemy’s passive Perception check beats your check
result, you don’t remain hidden from that enemy.
Don’t Attack: If you attack, you don’t remain hidden.
✦  Not Remaining Hidden: If you take an action that
causes you not to remain hidden, you retain the
benefits of being hidden until you resolve the action.
You can’t become hidden again as part of that same
action.
✦  Enemy Activity: An enemy can try to find you on its
turn. If an enemy makes an active Perception check
and beats your Stealth check result (don’t make
a new check), you don’t remain hidden from that
enemy. Also, if an enemy tries to enter your space,
you don’t remain hidden from that enemy


and the rules for Targeting What You Can't See are:

Targeting What You Can’t See
Page 281:Replace the “Invisible Creature Uses
Stealth” and “Make a Perception Check” paragraphs
with the following text.
Invisible Creatures and Stealth: If an invisible creature
is hidden from you (“Stealth,” page 188), you can neither
hear nor see it, and you have to guess what space it occu-pies. If an invisible creature is not hidden from you, you
can hear it or sense some other sign of its presence and
therefore know what space it occupies, although you still
can’t see it.
Make a Perception Check: On your turn, you can make
a Perception check as a minor action (page 186) to try
to determine the location of an invisible creature that is
hidden from you.




(I don't feel bad about quoting the rules in full, here, because they're a free download on that page I linked.)

Nov 21, 2012 -- 1:09PM, Malph wrote:

Is there some place in some book or errata you can point me to? 

See the post above yours.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 1:09PM, Malph wrote:

In the original PH, it repeatedly says with someone in Total Concealment (fighting in pitch-black darkness, or he's invisible), creatures can't be sure of his exact location, and need to beat a Stealth check by 10 to know his exact square.  Pg 281 PH seems pretty clear, specifically saying when a creature is invisible (using that specific word, not hidden), that you need to follow the Targeting What You Can't See rules, which says to know the exact square of the invisible creature, you need to beat the stealth check by 10.

That's correct, PHB1 does say that, but it's wrong.  Check out PHB2, or the links in the above post, for the post-errata version.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 1:09PM, Malph wrote:

Please understand I am not doubting you, but when discussing this with my group I play with, pointing out the rules on a D&D errata or book holds more weight then "people on the D&D forums said so".

Totally understood!  And yeah, your original question makes WAY more sense if you're using the printed PHB1 rules.... which were changed ALMOST IMMEDIATELY after the book came out, for exactly the reasons you found.