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 Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Rules Q&A Charging and teleport
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 2:45AM #151
Guest869026356
Date Joined: Feb 28, 2010
Posts: 30
I think people arguing that teleport is "one square of movement" regardless of the number of squares teleported, are either reading to much into the PHB3 definition of movement - it says "when a creature, an object, or an effect leaves a square to enter another, it is moving", it doesn't say "when a creature, an object, or an effect leaves a square to enter another, it counts as one square of movement" or are imposing the way they imagine teleportation to work onto the rules. Teleportation is a form of movement. As such the general rules for movement apply for all cases for which no special rules exists. And there is no special rule that says that you do not count intervening squares when determining the number of squares moved. (And yes, counting intervening squares is the general rule.) Quite to the contrary, the rules for teleportation in PHB3 explictly mention how to tread intervening squares. You ignore the creatures, objects, terrain of those squares. It wouldn't be necessary to (explicitly mention to) ignore stuff in the intervening squares if the intervening squares per se would be ignored.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 7:04AM #152
Date Joined: Mar 8, 2007
Posts: 380
i like this part ...

And there is no special rule that says that you do not count intervening squares when determining the number of squares moved. (And yes, counting intervening squares is the general rule.)

mostly since a general rule about counting intervening squares in cases where you can only move to an adjacent square is just a wonderfully overlooked idea.

lets get a full qoute so we are not only telling a half truth....

Instantaneous: Teleportation is instantaneous. The target disappears  and immediately appears in the destination space you choose. The  movement is unhindered by intervening creatures, objects, or terrain.

you need to mention the first 2 sentences in addition to the third
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 12:30PM #153
sharkpower
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 445

Move (PHB 3)

Whenever a creature, an object, or an effect leaves a square to enter another, it is moving, whether that move is done willingly or is forced. This means shifting, teleporting, and being pushed are all moves, for example.

If a power notes a distance that you or an ally moves willingly (for example, “you shift 2 squares”), the character allowed to move can decide to move all, some, or none of that distance. Similarly, if a power forcibly moves an enemy (for example, “you push the target 3 squares”), you can decide to move the enemy all, some, or none of that distance.

If a power notes the destination for your or an ally’s move (for example, “a square adjacent to the target”), the character allowed to move decides either to move to that destination or not. You can’t move partway. Similarly, if a power specifies where you force an enemy to move, you decide either to move the enemy there or not.

You don't enter the interviening squares because you can't move partway. You decide to Teleport to a square that is X squares away from your current position.

A teleport is a power that notes the destination for your move (the destination space). You can't move partway. One of the results of this is you're not able to move into any of the squares in between. That means you can't check each square between your origin square and destination squares. You only count those squares for the purpose of determining what squares are eligible as a destination space.

You don't move across those squares. You don't pass through them in some other dimension.

Whether or not this solves your question of is a teleport is one square of movement or more it doesn't explicitly say.

Edit: Added the PHB 3 reference

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 1:03PM #154
Artoomis
Date Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 1,755

Jul 24, 2010 -- 12:30PM, sharkpower wrote:

...

A teleport is a power that notes the destination for your move (the destination space). You can't move partway. One of the results of this is you're not able to move into any of the squares in between. That means you can't check each square between your origin square and destination squares. You only count those squares for the purpose of determining what squares are eligible as a destination space.

You don't move across those squares. You don't pass through them in some other dimension.

Whether or not this solves your question of is a teleport is one square of movement or more it doesn't explicitly say.

Edit: Added the PHB 3 reference

Exactly.  Just as you count those squares to see if it is a legal charge.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 1:28PM #155
Date Joined: Mar 8, 2007
Posts: 380
glad to see we agree on our ability to count , so when we charge and count us as 2 squares to the left of the target , then after moving to the oposite side and we count and we are 1 square away from the target , all of our counting is making sense
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 1:49PM #156
sharkpower
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 445

Jul 24, 2010 -- 1:03PM, Artoomis wrote:

Jul 24, 2010 -- 12:30PM, sharkpower wrote:

...

A teleport is a power that notes the destination for your move (the destination space). You can't move partway. One of the results of this is you're not able to move into any of the squares in between. That means you can't check each square between your origin square and destination squares. You only count those squares for the purpose of determining what squares are eligible as a destination space.

You don't move across those squares. You don't pass through them in some other dimension.

Whether or not this solves your question of is a teleport is one square of movement or more it doesn't explicitly say.

Edit: Added the PHB 3 reference

Exactly.  Just as you count those squares to see if it is a legal charge.

The counting you are referring to is, I assume, in the section of charge where you are determining distance:

Action: Standard action. When a creature takes this action, it chooses a target. Determine the distance between the creature and the target, even counting through squares of blocking terrain, and then follow these steps.

The teleportation is effecting the move portion of the charge:

1.    Move: The creature moves up to its speed toward the target. Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the target, and the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its start-ing position.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 2:08PM #157
Artoomis
Date Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 1,755

Jul 24, 2010 -- 1:49PM, sharkpower wrote:

Jul 24, 2010 -- 1:03PM, Artoomis wrote:

Jul 24, 2010 -- 12:30PM, sharkpower wrote:

...

A teleport is a power that notes the destination for your move (the destination space). You can't move partway. One of the results of this is you're not able to move into any of the squares in between. That means you can't check each square between your origin square and destination squares. You only count those squares for the purpose of determining what squares are eligible as a destination space.

You don't move across those squares. You don't pass through them in some other dimension.

Whether or not this solves your question of is a teleport is one square of movement or more it doesn't explicitly say.

Edit: Added the PHB 3 reference

Exactly.  Just as you count those squares to see if it is a legal charge.

The counting you are referring to is, I assume, in the section of charge where you are determining distance:

Action: Standard action. When a creature takes this action, it chooses a target. Determine the distance between the creature and the target, even counting through squares of blocking terrain, and then follow these steps.

The teleportation is effecting the move portion of the charge:

1.    Move: The creature moves up to its speed toward the target. Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the target, and the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its start-ing position.

Exactly.  Both for "Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the target" and for "the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its  starting position"

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 2:25PM #158
sharkpower
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 445

Exactly.  Both for "Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the target" and for "the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its starting position"

My point is this: In regards to a charge, teleport needs to be one square of movement that takes you X squares distance from your origin space to your destination space.

While teleporting, you can't move partway. You can't move your character through each square between you and the target. You're not allowed to. You have to go from origin space to destination space. At the point when you teleport you move from your origin space to your destination space instantaneously. There are no checks in between.

Therefore, the only way for a teleport to be valid during a charge (except to teleport to an adjacent square) is for it to count as one square of movement that costs you X squares of your alloted teleport movement.

Unless you can refute that this portion of the move definition (PHB3) does not apply to teleport:

If a power notes the destination for your or an ally’s move (for example, “a square adjacent to the target”), the character allowed to move decides either to move to that destination or not. You can’t move partway. Similarly, if a power specifies where you force an enemy to move, you decide either to move the enemy there or not.

Teleportation requires you to choose your destination. So you can't move partway. It's all or nothing.

You can't move part way. You can't check all the squares in between. You can only check the difference in distance between the origin space and the destination space in term of their a: distance to the target, and b: distance allotted to teleportation.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 2:32PM #159
Artoomis
Date Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 1,755

Jul 24, 2010 -- 2:25PM, sharkpower wrote:

Exactly.  Both for "Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the target" and for "the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its starting position"

My point is this: In regards to a charge, teleport needs to be one square of movement that takes you X squares distance from your origin space to your destination space.

While teleporting, you can't move partway. You can't move your character through each square between you and the target. ...

True, but that has no bearing on whether you should check those squares to be a legal charge, especially when teleporting to "replace" a legal charge movement as in Fey Charge.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2010 - 4:16PM #160
sharkpower
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 445

True, but that has no bearing on whether you should check those squares to be a legal charge, especially when teleporting to "replace" a legal charge movement as in Fey Charge.

You're replacing your allotted squares of charge movement. You can't replace them after you have done the move because you'd be replacing them with an action that does not allow you to enter those squares. You have to replace them when you teleport (either before you begin moving or somewhere along the way). Now that some of the movement (walking, flying, swimming) has been replaced you still have to conform to the charge rules that have been listed numerous times in previous posts.

You can't move your character through it's charge path and then retroactively replace that movement with teleport because teleport doesn't allow you to enter interviening squares (only the destination space).

You don't in fact chart a path for charge because under the charge rules you never do that. When it comes time to move: you move. Each square of movement must bring you closer to the target. NOT each square of allotted movement spent (or difficult terrain would invalidate your charge movement) but each transition from one square to another.