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3 years ago ::
Sep 02, 2010 - 9:26AM
#51
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Added The Man of Steel to the list. To those who are still waiting for build approval, I'll get around to it eventually...I'm really busy of late though, so I don't really know how long it will take me to get it all done. Just know that I'm not ignoring you. Likewise, I WILL get in summaries of level effectiveness, it's just going to take some time.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 5:57PM
#52
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Date Joined:
Apr 11, 2008
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I noticed that several of these builds don't really come on-line until later levels. Maybe you could add a marker, or even a little side section, for builds that work best at the lowest levels of play?
Like, you might use a different attribute spread and take different feats if you were optimizing solely for levels 1-5. I play mostly in heroic tier, so the builds that rock right from the get-go are a lot more relevant to me than those that depend on a paragon path or a level 13 power to really get going. Making those stand out a little would really be helpful.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 6:19PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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I noticed that several of these builds don't really come on-line until later levels. Maybe you could add a marker, or even a little side section, for builds that work best at the lowest levels of play?
Like, you might use a different attribute spread and take different feats if you were optimizing solely for levels 1-5. I play mostly in heroic tier, so the builds that rock right from the get-go are a lot more relevant to me than those that depend on a paragon path or a level 13 power to really get going. Making those stand out a little would really be helpful.
In general, most ultimate defenders can't possibly come online until high heroic/low paragon. Before that, they're for the most part just defenders of a particular class(es) or builds with possibly an unusual focus. Ioun Grey Stone Marker works perfectly fine in low Heroic - it is basically a Battlemind with one less at-will and some unusual utilities.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 9:09PM
#54
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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What MwaO said.
There just isn't much you CAN do in heroic above and beyond the usual defender stuff.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2010 - 6:08AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2003
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I noticed that several of these builds don't really come on-line until later levels. Maybe you could add a marker, or even a little side section, for builds that work best at the lowest levels of play?
Like, you might use a different attribute spread and take different feats if you were optimizing solely for levels 1-5. I play mostly in heroic tier, so the builds that rock right from the get-go are a lot more relevant to me than those that depend on a paragon path or a level 13 power to really get going. Making those stand out a little would really be helpful.
I don't know about most of these builds, but the Inexhaustible Dragon Sovereign has a lot of its tricks available early on. (multiple mass divine sanction)
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3 years ago ::
Oct 28, 2010 - 10:09AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Added The Anointed Knight, the first essentials Ultimate Defender on the list.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 30, 2010 - 11:47PM
#57
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I'd like to nominate The Sliding Sigil Carver to the Ultimate Defenders list. I think that she's different enough from Dr. No and Darth Vader to be considered. At her best, she can completely triviallize encounters against melee foes, and unlike most defenders, she doesn't need to be near her enemies to mess them up (well, within 5 squares), and she can defend against a whole bunch of enemies at the same time. Most defenders offer the choice: "Try to hit me, or hit an ally and eat some damage. " Her catch-22 is "Try to hit me, or attempt to hit an ally and eat some damage and then completely fail to hit that ally since you are now on the other side of the battlefield*." Additionally, she's quite strong from 16 on, and not bad before that. Her defenses are up there with the best, with considerable effort put into non-AC, non-NAD defenses (surges, saves, resist damage, ThP). (* and in the future, prone and slow)
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3 years ago ::
Oct 31, 2010 - 3:34PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2008
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I second billyh's nomination. She's a well-thought out Sigil Carver with high defenses and a top-knotch Action Denial schtick that is bound to frustrate many a DM. This build is also found in what may be the best Sigil Carver guide to date... Definitely worth consideration.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 31, 2010 - 7:10PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Apr 11, 2008
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I'd like to nominate The Sliding Sigil Carver to the Ultimate Defenders list.
I think that she's different enough from Dr. No and Darth Vader to be considered. At her best, she can completely triviallize encounters against melee foes, and unlike most defenders, she doesn't need to be near her enemies to mess them up (well, within 5 squares), and she can defend against a whole bunch of enemies at the same time.
Most defenders offer the choice: "Try to hit me, or hit an ally and eat some damage. "
Her catch-22 is
"Try to hit me, or attempt to hit an ally and eat some damage and then completely fail to hit that ally since you are now on the other side of the battlefield*."
Additionally, she's quite strong from 16 on, and not bad before that. Her defenses are up there with the best, with considerable effort put into non-AC, non-NAD defenses (surges, saves, resist damage, ThP).
(* and in the future, prone and slow)
Even as much as I like swordmages, you also have to make the disadvantage clear - most of your catch-22 can only happen when you are adjacent to your ally, which can be quite a limiting factor depending on your party makeup. A group of all ranged people? Easy. A group of melee strikers? It gets really hard for them to fight against the same target, and you can kiss flanking goodbye.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 31, 2010 - 10:48PM
#60
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From that thread:
"The Sliding Sigilcarver isn't the perfect defender for every situation. No defender is. But with a party designed and played with her strengths in mind, she can be one of the best."
I do mention that she needs to be adjecent to her allies, and some abilities (like shadow walk via assasin multiclass) are rejected because of this.
All Defenders need to position themselves. The difference is that most of the time, Defenders have to reposition themselves relative to team monster and team hero. The Sliding Sigil Carver is much more dependent on the team-hero part of that curve. If the rest of your team consists of terrible players, she is much much worse.
Flanking is more difficult, but what level 16+ heroes are dependent on flanking?
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