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3 years ago ::
Jul 07, 2010 - 8:38PM
#51
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Page 267 of the PHB says:
"If you’re using a weapon for the attack, the damage is some multiple of your weapon damage dice."
So, when I use Furious Smash, and it deals damage equal to my Strength, that actually means it deals damage equal to my Strength multiplied by my weapon dice?
And when I use the secondary attack of All Bets are Off, 1d6 is my weapon damage die?
Or are we going to recognize that these explanatory charts talk in generalities and are not applicable in 100% of possible situations?
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3 years ago ::
Jul 07, 2010 - 9:02PM
#52
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Covered by how to read a power. Next? Do you just enjoy being wrong?
Under the "Hit" entry in How to Read a Power, it says:
"See “Attacks and Defenses,” page 269, for how to make attack rolls, how to deal damage, and how to apply various effects, including conditions and forced movement."
So, it references back to what I quoted in the last post.
And really, not everyone was around for all those apparently endless threads where you argued this before. You're going to have to be patient. It's not like I'm above agreeing with you or anything, as I find you to be generally very knowledgable.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 07, 2010 - 9:17PM
#53
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Hit: This entry describes what happens to each target that you hit with the power's attack.
PHB3. The general rule says you do whatever the hit line says you do. No more, no less. General is always specific in this case. Seems odd, they should've done that more cleanly.
Well, it is endless. Time Stop, a PHB1 power, had debates reaching dozens of pages on what you could and couldn't do with the actions granted. An attack means you roll to see if you hit is in the fabric of 4e, a lot of things break down if that is not true. The definition is incredibly simple. The fact that a change no one expected, or wanted as far as I can tell, that was done to return MM to its "iconic" status has the side-effect of making people doubt as perfectly clear rule is... bleh.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 07, 2010 - 10:23PM
#54
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Date Joined:
Jul 19, 2007
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If Commander's Strike is not an attack, then why in the world does the Warlord need to wield a weapon and be in weapon's reach of the target?
Is he using his weapon to point out the target for his ally - "Here. This is the one. Attack this one!"
_________________________________________________
"Jacking up the level rewards has always carried the taint of bribery, in my mind. If people need to be bribed to play D&D, then something's wrong with the game."
-Steve Winter (http://www.howlingtower.com/2012/01/illusory-math.html)
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3 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2010 - 12:12AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2005
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I haven't seen errata for the ranged attack section of the PHB that covers this.
Bottom of the right side of page 270.
"Ranged Attack
A ranged attack is a strike against a distant target. A ranged attack usually targets one creature within its range. Shooting a bow or casting a magic missile is a ranged attack."
So until this is also errata'd, the case seems closed.
General rule: Attacks require an attack roll.
Specifric rule: Shooting a bow or casting a magic missle is a ranged attack.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2010 - 12:41AM
#56
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I haven't seen errata for the ranged attack section of the PHB that covers this.
Bottom of the right side of page 270.
"Ranged Attack
A ranged attack is a strike against a distant target. A ranged attack usually targets one creature within its range. Shooting a bow or casting a magic missile is a ranged attack."
So until this is also errata'd, the case seems closed.
General rule: Attacks require an attack roll.
Specifric rule: Shooting a bow or casting a magic missle is a ranged attack.
Oh, goodie! Another person who gets to be wrong! I could start a collection.
Targeted: Ranged attacks target individuals.
A ranged attack against multiple enemies consists of
separate attacks, each with its own attack roll and
damage roll. Ranged attacks don’t create areas of
effect (page 272).
It is almost as if, on the exact same page, under the exact thing you quoted, was an entry that clearly specified that a Ranged Attack has an attack roll. Praise Jesus etc.
In fact you've brought up an excellent point. Every single attack type, as listed in the PHB, Melee, Ranged, Close, and Area all specify that they have an attack roll. So I have one general rule, and four specific ones. Other side? Jack and squat for RAW. Thank you for strengthning my argument yet more.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2010 - 12:53AM
#57
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Here is what Customer Service says:
Thanks for the question. Magic Missile is an attack in all forms, save that it does not trigger any effects that require you to "hit" or "miss" with an attack, since it does not have an attack roll.
I hope this clarifies things for you!
Joh
Online Response Crew
There goes my white lotus Riposte, Master Riposte and white lotus enervation, and lasting frost, wintertouched. level 18 dragontooth wand of cold and even arcane admixture.
Thanks a lot wotc.
My level 18 wizard is bit more useless now, since the rest of my powers build on the vulnerable to cold option.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2010 - 1:55AM
#58
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2007
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The new magic missile is an level 1 attack power, it is a ranged attack, and it has a target. But it doesn't have an attack line or a hit line.
Should it count as an attack for, say, popping greater invisibility?
When the rules are unclear or silent on what exactly a term means, we fall back to the common English meaning of the word.
If you walk down the street and suddenly, Bob Q. Wizard launches a silvery bolt at you that hurts, would you claim he attacked you? Yeah, I thought so too.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2010 - 1:59AM
#59
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The new magic missile is an level 1 attack power, it is a ranged attack, and it has a target. But it doesn't have an attack line or a hit line.
Should it count as an attack for, say, popping greater invisibility?
When the rules are unclear or silent on what exactly a term means, we fall back to the common English meaning of the word.
If you walk down the street and suddenly, Bob Q. Wizard launches a silvery bolt at you that hurts, would you claim he attacked you? Yeah, I thought so too.
Sound advice. Thankfully the rules are explicit in this case and we don't have to resort to any such thing. Whew.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2010 - 3:21AM
#60
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Date Joined:
May 13, 2009
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Does this mean that you can Magic Missile without fear of triggering nasty Mark effects?
Does this mean it doesn't even provoke OA because only a Ranged Attack or an Area Attack provoke and it's neither?
Would certainly bump its power a bit more.
Epic Dungeon Master Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen! Your Kingdom awaits!Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
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