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3 years ago ::
Jul 15, 2010 - 10:35PM
#351
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@Alcestis Dragon Breath has an attack roll so it's an attack according to our good ol' PHB. And to your 10o last Posts. The FAQ doesn't say only Attack Powers are Attacks. It says all Attack Powers with Target lines or Attack lines are attacks. The rest should fall exactly where it was standing before.
EDIT Go read the Mage again, it says Wizard Attack 1 and it's a Power.
But they're cleary saying the definition in the PHB is wrong, that is what FAQs do, clarify these things.
It says "Wizard Attack" now, thankfully I actually read the whole thing. The Power Card says that, but the article is refering to it as a "Class Feature." I imagine he just copy/pasted the current card block. We'll see what the released product calls it. Given that the non-copy pasted part called is a Class Feature, I'm betting on Class Feature.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 15, 2010 - 10:45PM
#352
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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The problem with this entire debate is that the core of it, the question of whether or not every single one of the steps listed on PHB 269 is required to define an ability as an attack or not, is left unanswered in the rules.
This is a debate that cannot have a resolution with the text we have provided. Reading it in one way, it is evident that the steps listed 1-5 are all required, while reading it in another way, one is forced to concluded that these are simplified generalizations on the functionality of 95% of attacks. Thus, like many other debates on these boards, there cannot be resolution and we are simply still beating upon a corpse of a horse that died a week ago.
Page 269 is a strawman, it's not meaningful. "How to Road a Power" is the required reading for this argument.
The attacks, if any, are listed in the attack line, just like the targets are listed in the target line, the hit effects are listed in the hit line and so on and so forth. It's very simple.
No attack line = no attack. If Magic Missile just said "Attack: Apply this power's effects to the target" bam! Attack. Without an attack line, it doesn't count.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 15, 2010 - 10:49PM
#353
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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There is specific text in the PHB that says Magic Missle is a ranged attack ( and therefore an attack. )
No.
"Ranged Attack" is an attack type, just like Area Attack, Close Attack, and Melee Attack. Is Lay on Hands and Attack?
This isn't hard guys!
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3 years ago ::
Jul 15, 2010 - 10:57PM
#354
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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ROFL. Hahahaahahahaah.
Oh man, the Essentials Line is giving Wizards Magic Missile as a Class Feature, so that FAQ won't apply because it won't be an attack power. Hahahaahahahahahaa.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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3 years ago ::
Jul 15, 2010 - 11:00PM
#355
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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So, monk movement techs with target lines are attacks now? Any warlord attack power that targets an ally is an attack now?
Awesome.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 12:57AM
#356
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Basically. Yeah, that definition doesn't break anything at all. And that is just what I could think of off-hand, I'm sure there are at least a couple of powers that are now extremely interesting.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 4:24AM
#357
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2004
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Actually, there's a fine case to be made that the Warden forms are not attacks: Only melee, ranged, close and area are valid attack types. Personal is not, so Target: Personal powers don't count as attacks.
And arguing that the FAQ entry excludes Dragonbreath as an attack is a litle disingenuous. You could indeed read it that way, but you don't have to.
Edit - Also, the MM power in the Essentials preview still says it is a Wizard Attack power. Apparently Attack 1, just the 1 got cut off in the graphics display.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 4:39AM
#358
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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The "FAQ Counter" is added to the argument outline.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 6:18AM
#359
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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The "FAQ Counter" is added to the argument outline.
No dude, argument over. FAQ is a rules source. All that's left to do now is break it.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 6:26AM
#360
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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Actually, there's a fine case to be made that the Warden forms are not attacks: Only melee, ranged, close and area are valid attack types. Personal is not, so Target: Personal powers don't count as attacks.
The FAQ doesn't meniton attack type or range. It requires targets and/or an attack line.
That said, I don't feel the warden forms are attacks by this rule; they're powers which allow a different power to be used. If one had a target line, even "Target: Self" it would work though.
I think this will get broken with recursive Thundering Armors or Direct the Strikes (and encounter powers like them) somehow. I've already noted how you could get a brutal nova round out of either of them, I'm just not sure how to stretch that into infinity.
Yet.
Give me some time.
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