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3 years ago ::
Jul 03, 2010 - 9:56AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2004
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I like jedrious' idea so much I sent the following in to WotC:
Please update the glossary entry for full discipline powers as follows:
from
• One per Round: You can use only one full discipline power per round, unless you spend an action point. If you spend an action point to take an extra action, you can switch to a different full discipline power.
to
• One per Round: You can use only one full discipline power per round, unless you spend an action point. If you spend an action point to take an extra action, you can switch to a different full discipline power. For the purpose of deciding when you can use a technique from a full discipline power, the round ends at the end of your turn. This is an exception to the general rule on "Once per Round" benefits.
I give credit to "jedrious" (from the WotC discussion boards) for this idea.
Discussion:
This solves an issue with the Class Acts: Monk article where some triggered free actions and immediate actions introduce movement technique usable outside ones' own turn, an entirely new situation that was not well-supported with the existing general rule of:
Once Per Round: Some benefits are usable once per round. If you use such a benefit, you can’t use it again until the start of your next turn.
This general rule would mean that these new powers would create a brand new complication of tracking which full discipline power was used during one's last turn to know if one could be used in-between turns, and if any of the triggered free actions or immediate interrupts would be available - which, of course, would only be triggered if no full discipline had been used during the last turn or if the right full discipline attack had been used so the right movement technique was still available - but only if that had been used after an action point was spent or no action point had been used since action points "switch" which full discipline power is active.
That's all very confusing and needlessly complex when the simple rules update above solves this whole problem and makes these triggered free cation or immediate actions always available if the trigger occurs - following the normal rules for immediate actions, of course.
This is a completely unnecessary. It is not confusing at all, provided you understand how the action economy actually works.
And as for the fallacy of the "difficulty" of keeping track of the full discipline power, you are tracking ONE power, with the details of the movement technique written on the power card. And if you use an AP, then again you are tracking a total of ONE power.
If a player has difficulty tracking options for interrupts, then, the following classes are not for them: fighter, paladin, swordmage, warden, battlemind, and now the monk.
It not a brand new complication. All this "fix" does is restrict the options that the player has on his next turn, if he uses an out of turn Movement Technique. You would still have to track the technique, just it would be the Attack Technique. Logistically, nothing would be resolved by the change.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 03, 2010 - 11:13AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2005
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I also don't think any clarification is needed. Because the full discipline powers and immediate actions are once per round, they "recharge" at the same time, at the beginning of your next turn. From there, its pretty easy to figure out since its basically following the immediate action rules (with the additonal wrinkle of remembering which full discipline power you used last the previous round):
Since you normally can't spend an action point off turn to change your full discipline power, you can use the movement technique of the fallen needles power independent of the attack technique in only two situations: during the first round of combat, before your first turn (which shouldn't happen much since you're a Dex-based striker) or after your turn following the usage of a power without the full discipline keyword. Otherwise, you need to use the fallen needles attack technique first to be able to use the movement technique.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2010 - 9:07AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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These are gigantic changes to Full Disciplines and break the general rule spelled out in the Monk class description.
...snip...
1. It's not a move action.
2. While it is "At Will," it can only be used once per round because it's an immediate action.
3. Once you've used the immediate action, this is the only Full Discipline you can use on your turn.
...snip...
Now you have a free action that can be taken out of turn, but only once since it is from an encounter powers. Why is this not an immediate action and the one from At Will power a free action?? Not only that, but it has an embedded move in the attack (the "effect" line) which gives you the ability to move three times in the turn (two move action plus this attack action).
...snip...
From what you say here, it sounds like you understand the abilities perfectly. So I'm wondering why you feel they need clarification? The At-Will is an Immediate Interrupt to prevent you from using the movement portion every time an enemy moves adjacent to you within one round (since At-Will movement actions can be used multiple times as long as they're from the same Full-Discipline, i.e. using Dancing Cobra to make two "speed +2" movements or Five Storms to shift 4 squares in one turn). The encounter ability is a free action since the encounter power restriction keeps it from being used more than once in a round, and I guess they wanted to elave the interrupt for something else.
Catching up on this article, but the At-Will is the only power that I see being worth taking in this set.
Using one of the Movement Techniques on an encounter power as an interrupt would use that complete power for the Encounter. You'd be giving up the attack capability. I guess you can look at it as offering increased flexibility for the character (you don't need to use, it, it is your choice), but by the same token, the attacks don't let you combine a movement and attack on your turn, thereby limiting your flexibility.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 25, 2010 - 9:54AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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Catching up on this article, but the At-Will is the only power that I see being worth taking in this set.
I totally disagree. My Monk has been using Fallen Hammer in Repose and loves it and its minor action movement technique. If he gets high enough level, I'm definitely going to replace it with Fall of the Anvil's Master.
Using one of the Movement Techniques on an encounter power as an interrupt would use that complete power for the Encounter. You'd be giving up the attack capability... the attacks don't let you combine a movement and attack on your turn, thereby limiting your flexibility.
That's not how it works. You can use both the attack technique and movement technique of all of these encounter powers. The way that it works is that you use the attack technique on your own turn, setting yourself up in that full discipline power until the start of your next turn, so you can then use the free/interrupt/reaction movement technique any time before then. You don't have to give up the attack technique to use the movement technique unless you want to and didn't use any full discipline powers during your last turn.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 18, 2012 - 7:46PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Apr 24, 2010
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I figure this thread has long been dead. I've been making a monk character but all the movement techniques from the fallen needle have been replaced with the fallen hammer repose movement . least in the compendium and the character builder. Ideas on if this is just a mistake?
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