Semi-related question: Does time *exist* between turns? Or does a new turn immediately start when the last turn ends?
I have no idea. By the PHB, it doesn't seem to. Combat Sequence says that turns are the order in which you take action. The Taking Your Turn section says Start/End turns are not voluntary and take no game time. So it should be instant.
(And if time exists between turns, at some point when it is no person's turn because the last person has finished and the next person hasn't started yet, what's your justification for denying Free Actions there? And if it DOESN'T exist between turns and there is no interstitial no-turn time, how does someone who has Delayed get to take their turn?)
I don't need to have "justification" for "denying" anything, because the rules explicitly state that you can only take Free Actions on your turn, or someone else's turn. Not between turns - regardless of if time exists between turns, the rules explicitly only allows Free Actions on your turn or during/on another person's turn.
I tend to view there being no time between turns - but, then, I also let people take Free Actions *when the rules say they can*, which is at absolutely any time where I don't specifically prohibit it.
You are simply flat out wrong. The rules never say you can take a Free Action at absolutely any time the DM does not specifically prohibit. The rules say you can take it in any order with your other actions on your turn, or during/on someone else's turn. There is no rule about the order in which that free action takes place in relation to the other person's actions. You have simply extended the scope of Free Actions.
You've taken the idea that Free Actions can be taken at any point during any person's turn and decided that this means they can be taken during any person's turn, but that you have no choice in when during that turn to take them and no ability to control when they actually happen relative to the turn.
This is adding all kinds of restrictions that aren't there to begin with, and leads to really, really dumb results.
Free Actions can happen at absolutely any point during any person's turn, and the only restriction on them is "your DM might add a restriction if he thinks the situation warrants it".
You are incorrect. The rules to not say that Free Actions can be taken "at any point" during "any person's turn". You have extrapolated and expanded the capabilities of the Free Actions. That restriction isn't on the timing, either - only on the number of Free Actions. There is absolutely nothing that states you can take a Free Action at "absolutely any point during any person's turn".
Meaning, your "you can't POSSIBLY know when your Free Action might resolve! It doesn't SAY it happens when you take it, so it might happen, like, AFTER the guy Moves and Attacks and spends a Minor and an Action Point and attacks again and ends his turn!" is a restriction. That you've added. Because you think the situation warrants it. And you're wrong.
I have added nothing. Also, I have never said the situation warranted it. If you go all the way to the first post I made in this thread, my point was never "this shouldn't work" but "this doesn't work". It has always been specifically about an attempt to exploit an incorrect interpretation of the rules. By RAW, you take a Free Action during someone elses turn, but by RAW you have no say at which point during that turn you can act. It is up to DM arbitration.
No, they explicitly *do* let the players decide when to take their free actions, and rely on the DM to *overrule* if he feels the situation requires it.
You keep telling me to read. I even quoted it for you. So why don't you read it? They explicitly let the players decide to take a Free Action during someone else's turn, but they don't explicitly say when the Free Action is resolved.
Which is to say, any time you tell a player he can't take a Free Action, you're adding a restriction because, until you told him that, he COULD have taken that Free Action at that time.
Not all such restrictions are bad. Your suggested restriction? Bad. And also does not fix the root problem.
Nope. Your entire tirade? It doesn't address the issue - in that I have never said "OMG, this is a problem! We can fix it like this!". That would be suggesting something. I have never suggested a solution.
I have been saying: "This is not a problem. You can't do that anyways."
What I am now also saying: "You have an incorrect understanding of Free Actions. You have extended what Free Actions do, beyond what is granted in the rules. You have expanded the scope of Free Actions (in a reasonable way) and encoded that into the rules."
What I am saying is only "adding a restriction" to your version of the rules. It is merely following the actual RAW.
It is reasonable to allow Free Actions to take place "at any point they want". But it is not in the rules that they be allowed to do so. The rules only let them take Free Actions during their turn (in any order with their other actions) and during/on other turns. That is all. Everything else is up to the DM's judgment.
